BoostGuy951

That quote wasnt directed towards Tim, it was directed towards rcldesign.

Ahmet

I don't see what's wrong with a few questions? I'm sure Tim can defend himself and doesn't need everybody elses "support"...
Ahmet

christian

I bought some parts (Stage 2 turbo, exhaust) from Tim and I would say that in general he is a very honest person.

But ...

as all of the tuners (inc. Lindsey AND Guru racing) you can't trust them 100 % when it comes to performance numbers.

m42racer

I don't think that the questions were out of line. In fact I think it should be expected. We 951 owners have for years listened and purchased much product which has worked and alot that has not. We are buying in a market which is not regulated, one which has and still dumps alot of junk our way. We are the buying public, and therefore have a right to ask and question. I will admit, the Porsche buyer is very cynical of anything new which claims any sort of performance gains. Why shouldn't we be. We've all spent good money after bad product. There are quite a few tuners out there who have set up shop to sell us product. A quick look at their webb sites gives alot of information, which in my opinion tells who makes and who just sells. Some make and sells, some make and sell junk. Some appear to be nothing more than assemblers, prepared to offer up year after year the same stuff. I would name a few, but this is not the place or my point. I have recently been vocal about what I see happening to our aftermarket. There are some new players now. They appear to be offering a higher level of product. Why have some of the existing tuners not offered these products or this level of product in the past. Is it because they don't know what is good and how to develop new product to a higher level.

It appears to me that Tim has developed a new line of Turbo's and we should look at them and his dyno sheets with fairness and without prejudice, but if their are abnormalities with anything, well hell yes we should question. This is what should separate the good ones from the rest. I want good product which I can count on doing or providing me with exactly what was sold to me.

Recently I have read and seen on this board new products, new information, and a new level of enginerring knowhow. Some of which I can understand, and most I admit is beyond me. The new Headgasket by Guru, someones explanation of Headstuds and machining, Danno's ever present electronic explanations etc. Because most of this is beyond my comprehension, it is to this point we need to know that what we are buying is in fact what its claimed to be. I am glad we are now seeing a different level of engineering come into the 951 world. We can only hope this might just make ALL the others to lift their game too.

Simon

Wormhole

The linear boost cure would suggest this turbo is way to big for the application.

I'm looking towards any tuner to utilize the GT30/35 100% Garret hot/cold, with custom adapter plates converting the bolt designation, so it bolts directly to the stock location. With Tim's superior welding techniques, I'm hopeful his latest is exactly this, as it will save me much of my valuable time.

Tim, I’m very curious as to the specifics. Let me know how you want me to proceed, so I can guardedly sign up.

Mike S

The more I think about it, I can see why the license plate is blurred. If it is in fact a customers car you wouldn't want to have the license plate visible because any joe smoe can walk on down to the DMV and get your address. Not Good!!

That being said, I think Porsche G96 has raised a valid point. What is the real motor in this car? It has a very pronounced effect on the torque curve.

PorscheG96

Simon you're a genius. I'm glad you understand exactly where I'm coming from.

I don't believe for a second that _any_ tuner can get 140 more horsepower at the wheels on a 2.5 liter 8 valve 951 engine running stock boost with 6500 RPM redline no matter how many bolt-on goodies it has ESPECIALLY at 110 degrees ambient. Do some of you doubt Porsche's ability THAT much?

Mike, there are two factors at work here with regard to the license plate number: inconsistency and opportunity. SFR has license plate numbers displayed in dyno charts posted publically on their website. The fact that SFR is suddenly mindful of displaying customer license plate numbers NOW is 'inconsistent' with their typical behavior [their website remains unchanged] and the new image wasn't posted until after I contested SFR's claims; I suppose they saw an 'opportunity' to pull a fast one...who knows.

Prove me wrong and I'll apologize profusely. Promise.

Steve Lavigne

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by PorscheG96:
<strong>I don't believe for a second that _any_ tuner can get 140 more horsepower at the wheels on a 2.5 liter 8 valve 951 engine running stock boost with 6500 RPM redline no matter how many bolt-on goodies it has ESPECIALLY at 110 degrees ambient. Do some of you doubt Porsche's ability THAT much?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Bleh. Do some head work with bigger valves & some intake work, pop in a turbo suitable for high rpm, raise the compression ratio of the engine to 11:1, pour in some 116 octane gasoline, throw in a lot of tuning and a few extras, and I'm sure 140 more rwhp over stock is achievable.

You forgot to qualify your statement

Danno

Boost is just an indicator of restriction in the system. By removing restrictions, you raise the efficiency. So it's actually possible to flow in 75% more air at the same boost-level. Conversely, put in a 1" restrictor plate in your intake and instantly, you've got 25psi boost! But you're only getting 1/2 the power...

Good example of this is in comparing non-turbo cars (which are all running the same 0-psi of boost). Take a low-tech 2.0L 9.0:1 engine with 2-valve head and poor intake and exhausts. It may barely turn out 166hp.

Find another example of a 2.0L running at the same atmospheric pressure. But this one has efficiency upgrades such as 4-valve heads, higher 11:1 compression, and variable intakes/cams/exhausts. Off of a sudden, this engine is putting out 250hp, 50% more for the same 'boost'.

TurboTim

Oh Tim...are you sure?

Yes I am g96. The question is are you sure.Do you have any sort of facts supporting your accusations beside a dyno chart on my website which has the same license plate? I really dont think so.This particular car as become the testbed for many SFR products.It is always undergoing changes that you really have no clue about!!!!!!

Let's see here. Yesterday you posted this link:
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/951.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/951.jpg</a>

Yes sir.

But TODAY, you edited your post and changed the link to:
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/10psi951.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/10psi951.jpg</a>

Yes sir. I did this because I knew that someone like you would do exactly as you did! I also did this because we will be removing all the lcence plate numbers from any dyno charts and any pictures that we have. In the case of dyno charts, we will leave the names of the owners, run numbers, where the testing was performed, the mods and any other relevant information like air/fuel ratios, air temps, etc.......Thats it.

Why'd you do that?

Because I knew someone like you(actually I knew it would be you) would see the licence plate and turn this into a malay just like you have;^)

I see you deleted the license plate number of this car.
Interesting...so I went to your website and checked out your dyno charts. Sure enough I
found the car by the license plate, and it's got all the goodies you describe except for
*GASP* a 2.8 liter engine [second from the top].

Yes sir, this is correct. It has a 2.85L. IT IS JUST NOT IN THE CAR RIGHT NOW!!!!!! We have had problems with it.

<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com/dyno_results.html" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com/dyno_results.html</a>

<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com/dyno/stevedyno1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com/dyno/stevedyno1.jpg</a>

Unfortuntely, I guess you blew that sucker up because when we saw that car last year at
your SFR shop it had a 3 liter engine you were very proud of.

It had a 2.85L, to be exact. It didnt have the four into 1 header. It also had our old stage 3 single ball-bearing turbo. It had a Deltagate wastegate. It had a 2.5" exhaust. It had a few other parts on it that it doesnt now for your information.

Why would the car now have
a 2.5 liter engine if you were so proud of the 3 liter engine you built?

Again is was a 2.85L. Bore-102mmm x Stroke 88mm.The original engine was not built by me and I blew it up on the dyno. When John and I got together we rebuilt it. It has been having some problems so it was pulled and replaced with a used 2.5L after John left. The 2.85L, actually it will be a 2.9L now, will be going back in to this car in the near future.

You were even giving
joy rides in it [well, until you blew the turbo in the customer's car].

How long ago was this G96? It was over a year ago! G96, I encourage you to get your facts straight! I didnt blow up the turbo. It started to blow oil or so we thought. Actually, it turned out that the engine was blowing oil which is why IT WAS PULLED!!!!!!!

Anything to say for yourself, bro?

First off, you are not my bro. I dont consider you a friend either. G96, get your facts straight before you accuse me of lying (which you did mutiple times in this thread)! The red car has become our testmule to develop new products. It has undergone many changes over the years. It has had the motors pulled about 7-8 times. I can pull the motor by myself in about 6 hours. With some help from the guys at the shop we can pull this motor in about 3 hours! All labor on this vehicle has been performed for free for the last few years.

To everyone else......Please do not think G96 and I our friends because that is far from the truth. Please do not think that G96 knows anything about what is going on at our shop because he does not. In my opinion he is one of the most ingrateful people I have ever met . At one time I did like him and would have considered him a friend but after his 968 turbo conversion (that I had a big part in) I lost all respect for him. Ofcourse many of you see him taking stabs at me anytime he can and this is another reason for my feeling toward him. The last time G96 was at my shop was 8 months ago and he was only there to have his turbo piping finished. His visit was brief(a few hours) so he really has no idea what we have done or what we are doing over here. Everything G96 writes about SFR and myself is pure speculation based on old dyno charts and what he hears second hand! Actually, I am tired of being harrassed and accused by this kid. I will be contacting John Dunkle (since I am a Rennlist Sponser and have a little pull) to see if we can do anything about the situation between G96 and myself. It might be easier to plead my case if I could get some sort of emails from those that have seen him pull his crap with me over the last year. I am sure it would help JohnD. find a solution much easier if other Rennlist members are standing by my side! Thanks for everyones support.

BTW, you will be seeing some more dyno charts with these new turbos very soon.

TurboTim

Mike, there are two factors at work here with regard to the license plate number:
inconsistency and opportunity. SFR has license plate numbers displayed in dyno charts
posted publically on their website. The fact that SFR is suddenly mindful of displaying
customer license plate numbers NOW is 'inconsistent' with their typical behavior [their
website remains unchanged]

It will be soon.The website is being totally re-vamped and more dyno charts will be going up too:^)

and the new image wasn't posted until after I contested
SFR's claims;

First you asked what size motor it was and you were not contesting anything. Then I posted the chart after I removed the license plate number. This is when you not only contested my claims but accused me of misconduct and lying. This is how this started!!!!!! So in essence, "the new image was posted BEFORE you contested SFR claims"

Prove me wrong and I'll apologize profusely. Promise.

Start apoligizing considering you have no facts to back up your accusations! Start apoligizing for trying to flame me on a public forum. Start apoligizing for leading people to beleive YOU know exactly what we do at MY shop when you have been here one day, for three hours, in the last year.

TurboTim

Boost is just an indicator of restriction in the system. By removing restrictions, you raise
the efficiency. So it's actually possible to flow in 75% more air at the same boost-level.
Conversely, put in a 1" restrictor plate in your intake and instantly, you've got 25psi boost!
But you're only getting 1/2 the power...

Danno is so right! For example, we have a Toyota Supra in the shop. In stock trim it makes about 320 at the flywheel(which is about 256 at the wheels) stock. The stock boost level is about 12 psi or so. This car was dynoed at 17-18 psi and it made 737 horsepower at the wheels. Ofcourse there was an increase in boost pressure by 5-6 psi or so but the horsepower at the wheels almost tripled! You can see the dyno chart in Turbo Magazine.I dont recall what issue it was but the name on the cover was Supra Stars.The car got the cover. I know some of you have this in your stack of magazines;^) it just proves that with the right mods you can add a tremendous amount of power running identical boost levels as stock.

ninefiveone

To ask honest questions is a good thing. To ask those questions laced with a tone of contempt, arrogance and rudeness is unncessary and immature. Those questions should also be relevant. Does anyone really think a tuner car isn't going to undergo numerous iterations over the course of it's lifetime? Are we saying that if the car once had a 2.5L motor it should never have a 2.8? And vice versa?

The relevant question is what's been done to produce these numbers, will they result in a reliable motor and how they were recorded.

"oh that car used to be a 2.8 and you blew it up" is such a pointless statement. Who in the world doesn't think a tuner has had motors grenade? Race teams with significant investment and preperation have motors blow up all the time. A tuner trying new things should be blowing things up once in a while or that tuner isn't trying.

Obviously, the products the customer buys shouldn't be blowing up. That's the point of the tuner discovering mistakes along the way. But a customer product hasn't been offered yet. Tim has offered a glimpse into something he's working on. I'd rather he continue to work on that and blow it up any number of times and make it a bulletproof product rather than throw rocks at him for showing what he's been up to.

So go ahead and ask questions. But take the time to ask the right questions in the right ways.

Dan87951

Nicely put ninefiveone.

PorscheG96

Alright Tim, if you insist that this is a 2.5 liter engine and can prove it in the days to come then I'm VERY sorry for posting anything to suggest otherwise. I looked at all the indicators available at the time and they pointed at you being dishonest with your claims, but if that's untrue then I apologize.

You're correct, I haven't been to your shop in months because you've done things to convince me that you don't deserve my business [making false promises, writing dud checks, among other things that I will keep off the board] and for these reasons I am VERY critical of the claims you've made of late.

This will no longer happen, I will not scrutinize your threads on the board, and I wish you luck in the tuner business. Hopefully things have changed about the way you handle your customers since I knew you. I never criticized the quality of your work, I criticized your conduct once the customer's money is in your hands.

I still find 140 RWHP over stock very optimisitic, but hey who am I to say...again I'm sorry for challenging the validity of your numbers.