JohnK944T

Well I checked what I could, now am I smart enough to figure out what I checked. I went off of Rob posted.

Checked 1 & 2 on plug end got 5.01 volts
Checked 4 & 6 on plug end got 4.22 volts

I have yet to figure out what term. 12 is on my DME Control Unit plug. Is this under the fuse panel?

Next, I checked the pins of the switch for resistance.

1 & 2 throttle open = 4.56k ohms
1 & 2 throttle closed = 4.56k ohms

2 & 3 throttle open = 2.2k ohms
2 & 3 throttle closed = 631 ohms

4 & 6 throttle open = inf. ohms
4 & 6 throttle closed = .001 ohms

Next, I did control unit check, bridged 4 and 6 on plug and engine would cut out just above idle. Now I am not positive, but I think I should have had a difference between 1 & 2 on the switch with throttle open vs. closed? Is this switch bad?

Off to see what I can learn about error codes.

-jk

JohnK944T

Here are some more details.

I drove the car around with the TPS unplugged. For the first 10 to 15 miles it ran really good. The ARMI was reading rich as expected, blue on gas first green off gas. Then I hit a couple of stoplights. The car seamed to cough somewhere below 2200 rpms. I tried to get it to happen again and I could not. Few more miles and it happened again at the next stoplight. This time I notice the ARM hitting some of the yellow lights. Before all I could get was solid blue or one green, now it was starting to hit into the greens and yellows. This is with the TPS unplugged. I also thought I heard some clicking. It would increase with speed. The clicking does not happen all the time. I looked at the records for the car and the PO had replaced the TPS, no telling if the one in the car is new or used.

How do I get the error codes to read? What is the best tool? I tried to use a test light, but it would not blink at all..

-jk

Rob

[quote] I have yet to figure out what term. 12 is on my DME Control Unit plug. Is this under the fuse panel? <hr></blockquote>

The DME is the engine management computer located in the passenger side footwell under the front carpeting. Testing the idle speed contacts at the DME plug would now only verify the wiring to/from the TPS.

[quote] Now I am not positive, but I think I should have had a difference between 1 & 2 on the switch with throttle open vs. closed? Is this switch bad? <hr></blockquote>

It looks to me like you TPS is fine, The next thing to look for is an air leak as special tool has suggested. If the TPS idle speed contacts were the problem, your bog would be like the one produced by the checking control unit test (part D). This is the kind of bog I took you meant by the "bwwoooooow" description.

[quote] How do I get the error codes to read? What is the best tool? I tried to use a test light, but it would not blink at all.. <hr></blockquote>

Danno has written up a great procedure for getting the blink codes.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.org/951_racerx/TestSocketBlinkCodes.html" target="_blank">Danno's blink code test procedure</a>

Let us know what you find.
Rob

JohnK944T

Alright, just messed around with the blink codes per Danno's website.

Here is what I did, tell me if I went astray any where.

Drove the car with the TPS plugged in. Went around the block, it wide open throttle at two stoplights. Car did exhibit some coughing and sputtering in the lower rpms. Came back into the garage and popped the hood. The first time I put the LED in it was backwards and did not light. Next, I flipped it around and did not get any code, so I disconnected the TPS and started getting 4-1, TPS sensor code.

SO,
1. Did I screw anything up by putting it in backwards the first time? I am assuming that I just don't have an issue the computer knows the code for...

2. Did I do this to prove or disprove an air leak? I am guessing i did this to prove all sensors and valves are good. Now do i have to hunt for a vacuum leak??

Thanks,

-jk

Rob, looked at your pics, nice car!!

Rob

[quote] 1. Did I screw anything up by putting it in backwards the first time? I am assuming that I just don't have an issue the computer knows the code for... <hr></blockquote>

No, everything should be fine.

[quote] I am guessing i did this to prove all sensors and valves are good. Now do i have to hunt for a vacuum leak?? <hr></blockquote>

Yes, if you are not getting any codes then you should start looking for an air leak. Possible places are j-boot for cracks and all hoses tied into it, intecooler pipes and hoses, all hoses tied into the intake manifold. a couple of sneeky ones are: the small line tied into the botom of the throttle body, the rubber elbow located on top of the air oil seperator (right below where you add oil) and the hoses going to the air idle stabilizer located under the intake.

[quote] Rob, looked at your pics, nice car!! <hr></blockquote>

Thanks! I just did the header panel, intercooling ducting, and painted it this summer.

Let us know what you find.
Rob

superjet.1

heres what i think.no air leak because it wouldnt idle well and not the tps no code i suggest putting the stock air flow meter in and test driving sounds like a bad hot wire in the mass.i can loan you one if you need it.the other thing that might be possible check your fuel pressure could be your fpr failing.let us know .

Ken

If you can't find any of the other problems you are looking at, you might want to still replace the TPS. I believe it could still be bad. Let me explain.

The way the potentiometer works is moving an arm across coiled wire. As the arm moves further on the wire the overall resistance is increased(because the overall length of the wire is increased). Throughout the life of a TPS, certain sections of this coiled wire can become worn down, where others are not. So when the throttle is in one of these 'dead spots', the computer will not be reading correctly. (it would read closed throttle). So when pressing the pedal, the computer would see something like:

1/8 throttle
2/8 throttle
3/8 throttle
closed throttle
5/8 throttle
6/8 throttle
7/8 throttle
full throttle

If the dead spot was at 4/8 throttle. This is what i believe is causing your problem. To quote your original message:

[quote] power loss at speed if I did not get into the throttle just right <hr></blockquote>

Sounds like what i just explained.

Also, this is something alittle harder to detect. The tests you took were at fully opened and closed throttle. At those points the TPS could be working correctly, but it could still be bad overall. You can try and check the TPS throughout its range by taking measurements while turning the TPS slowly. If you see the resistance drop, that would point to a bad TPS. Then again, i tried to do this with mine and got no conclusive results. Replacing it however solved my problem. Good luck with whatever you do.

JohnK944T

I need to take a sick day just to work on my car!! At lunch I started up the car and put in the LED. Soon as I unplugged the TPS I got the 4-1 code. I plugged it back in and the code went away. Seems like there isn't a code storage if the issue comes and goes. With the LED in place I started to rev the engine and I got a new code!! 3-3 Pressure sensor in the K/CP control unit is defective OR a bad potentiometer in the TPS. The pdf.file from Danno's website states that if you get the 4-1 and 3-3 at the same time then the K/CP control unit is good. I will mess around with it some more to see if I can get both codes at the same time. I don't know that this is an absolute like the manual states. If the potentiometer is only bad at say 1/3 throttle wouldn't I lose 4-1 code at idle? The LED lights up solid with the throttle off of idle.

I have not done a search, but is this K/CP control unit the same as a KLR?? I the pressure sensor separate?

Thanks,
-jk

Ken

Dammit man! Change the TPS!!!! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Whew, sorry, had to get that out. So,

[quote]At lunch I started up the car and put in the LED. Soon as I unplugged the TPS I got the 4-1 code. I plugged it back in and the code went away. <hr></blockquote>

[quote]If the potentiometer is only bad at say 1/3 throttle wouldn't I lose 4-1 code at idle? <hr></blockquote>

Yes, if it was only bad at 1/3 throttle, you wouldn't get the error code at idle. If i'm reading the first part right, you're not getting the error code at idle with the TPS plugged in. But when you unplug the TPS you get the 4-1 error. (because the TPS is unplugged!) When you plugged the TPS back in the error code disappeared. So it really seems to point to the TPS.

I'm not sure what the K/CP control unit but it sounds more expensive that a TPS! So you should just replace the TPS! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

EDIT: I'm still alittle confused, i'll check it out when i get home from work. But anyway, replace the TPS!!!

JohnK944T

Ken-

About five minutes after reading your reply I was chattin' with Jason @ Paragon. TPS is on its way.. I still am interested in this 3-3 blink code..

Thanks,
jk

Ken

Woohoo! Sounds good. Let us know how it works out. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

jimbo1111

sounds to me like it's the power supply to the maf
meter make sure you have a true 12vdc power supply.

JohnK944T

Power Supply! Ya know I think that might have just done it. Wednesday I could barely make it around the block, had to idle home 2 blocks. Parked the car in the garage and left it. Next day I went back with the wiring info from Huntley. All I did is trace the wires to see where they went. Now this issue is gone, I can't get it to come back. I have done 2, 45 min trips and nothing gets the car to act up. Then, tonight I noticed the lights of the ARM1 were cutting out in the dark. Not just for a sec, but more like 2 min. I think all my issues are wire related. Are there any good sites that detail elecrical trouble shooting?

-jk