bradltl

Ok, my story in brief (so you know where I'm coming from): Owned a 98 Boxster for 2 1/2 years, loved it. Got married, sold it. Bought an Acura RSX Type S, hate it (FWD sucks, this is my first FWD car).

So the wife has an automatic Veto on anything over about $15,000. Just surfing around the net, I stumbled across a 1988 944 Turbo. The price is low compared to another similar models, so the first immediate question I have is: "What's wrong with it?". I don't expect anyone to know that from a picture, but I was wondering what type of pre-purchase inspections I can do to verify the condition of the car? I don't mean CarFax either. My next question is, "Well this car satisfy me?". I've been in front wheel drive hell for almost a year, I'm going to lose some money on negative equity, but I might be able to get the wife's approval if it would mean I would stop bitching every time I drive the car! What am I going to have to do to a "stock" car to get it handling comparable to the Boxster?

I'm strung out on sinus meds right now, so hopefully that post makes sense?!?!?! Any advise is greatly appreciated. Oh, any 944 techies in the Marietta, GA area want to take a look at the car for me? Thanks again!

Chas

That's just the thing to do. Get a "Pre-Purchase Inspection" done by a qualified and EXPERIENCED Porsche mechanic. If you really want to feel good inside, get a compression test done.

I am a fan of receipts, so I have always looked for a record/receipt "Bible"...that is, a complete listing by means of receipts of everything that has been done to the car.

With that and the PPI, as long as nothing bad turns up, I would feel very safe knowing nothing is wrong with the car.

As far as being satisfied...well...you will be. It is truely an amazing and capable car. Keep in mind, this IS a turbo and not as "torque-y" as some people expect, so it can be a bit annoying if you are in a thick city area. But other than that, it's pure driving ecstacy

Good luck!

Jake951

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Chas:
<strong>Keep in mind, this IS a turbo and not as "torque-y" as some people expect, so it can be a bit annoying if you are in a thick city area. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">To expand on that statement, it doesn't have the torque of a big NA engine below, say, 2500 rpm. Above 3000 rpm the torque really comes on, however, so you do need to keep the revs up.

I've driven the Boxster S and while it's a very nice car with better low-end torque than the 951, there's absolutely no comparison in midrange and top end power to my relatively "lightly" modified Turbo S (~$1k in upgrades).

bradltl

But what about the handling? The 944 purportedly has a 50/50 weight balance, however that way is dispersed to the edges of the car and would be conducive to a low polar moment. Any experiences with that? I only managed to spin my Boxster twice, both times at an AutoX trying to go through a 30 mph off camber sallom at about 60 mph. Damn physics. Point is the weight on the Boxster is very central and makes it a very forgiving car, how is the 944T?

As far as an inspection goes, Marietta is a good bit away from my mechanic, and there aren't too many Porsche Dealerships in rural Georgia. So I was kinda looking for specific things to look at on the more common problems, if possible?

Jaxon

I've owned a owned a 99 Boxster and an '87 951 at the same time. I decided to become a one Porsche man for a little while. It was an easy decision for me. I kept he 951. No comparison in power. They handled differently, and I guess the mid engine layout should be better, but once the shocks were changed out on my 951, the 951 seemed to handle as well to me. 951's aren't good for AutoX. Turbo lag. If you get a PPI be certain it is done by someone who really knows 951's, not someone who really knows Porsche's. Yes, it's a Porsche, but it is a different animal, and requires different technical knowledge. This board is great. Many of the people on it are far more knowledgeable than I will ever be on the 951. Go through the threads, and you will readily discern who they are. It would be worth traveling to someone like Danno's shop to obtain assistance. If I had it to do over again, that's what I would do. That way you know you are starting off on the right foot.

If I can be of any further help, feel free to email.

stjobs

FYI, having all the weight closer to the center of the car gives it a lower polar moment (Boxster.) This means it responds quickly but it less forgiving and more twitchy than a front engine/rear transaxle car like the 951. At least in theory.

stjobs

Ahmet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by bradltl:
<strong> Point is the weight on the Boxster is very central and makes it a very forgiving car, how is the 944T?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Actually, the "central" weight distribution of the boxter makes it less forgiving. In short I would say the 944 would be more stable at higher speeds, which comes at the cost of not being as nimble at lower speeds.
Ahmet

Jake951

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Ahmet:
<strong>Actually, the "central" weight distribution of the boxter makes it less forgiving. In short I would say the 944 would be more stable at higher speeds, which comes at the cost of not being as nimble at lower speeds.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That's my experience driving the Boxster S vs. my Turbo S. The Boxster feels more nimble and has better turn-in at lower speeds. Considering how sluggish it feels at lower speeds, the 951 becomes surprisingly nimble when pushed at higher speeds, however. Still I find both in stock form are rather forgiving and relatively easy to drive up to, say, 7/10 or 8/10. The stock suspension on my Turbo S also feels a lot stiffer, with less body roll but a harsher ride, than the Boxster. A non-S Turbo suspension is less stiff and probably closer to the Boxster.

Danno

"FYI, having all the weight closer to the center of the car gives it a lower polar moment (Boxster.) This means it responds quickly but it less forgiving and more twitchy than a front engine/rear transaxle car like the 951. At least in theory."

Exactly. R & T did a comparison test about 15-years ago on various engine layouts. Front-engine/rear-drive, mid-ending/rear-drive, front-engine/front-drive, etc. The cars that were the most responsive were the mid-engined ones, but they also spun the easiest and were the hardest to recover (MR2, X1/9, Fiero, etc.).

fast951

BRADLTL,

Email me directly, I live in the Atlanta area. I can recommend few shops that will do the PPI for you. Also, I might know the car you are considering...

John

Andy

Brad, I live in Marietta and would be happy to look at it, I also could recommend a shop or two, probably the same ones as John. Let me know.

951's are very rewarding cars to own and drive, I've had my car for over two and a half years (20k miles) and still don't have your wife's 15k in it including purchase, maintenance, and mods... Can't beat this car in the Porsche world for value/performance.

Waterguy

Closest thing to a Boxster would probably be a 944 S2. I haven't driven one, but supposedly it is a very good autocross car (especially with M030 suspension) and very similar power and weight numbers to a Boxster. Nothing turns like a Boxster, but the high polar moment of inertia makes it controllable/forgivable. (Ask me about a certain S2 in my rear view mirror that was completely sideways around a switchback on the Duffy Lake Road, but also completely in control; looked like fun!)

gatorbait

Caveat Emptor. However attractive the price of admission, there are simply no guarantees for cars that are 15,16, and 17 years old. Even cars with relatively low miles and shiny paint can be arthritic (ask me how I know).

I bought my '86 944 turbo with 76K on the clock last December, a beautiful car which was represented as "needing nothing" (with an inspection report that supported that claim).

Since then: water pump, motor mounts, belts, fuel injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter, throttle position switch, plug wires, rebuilt transmission, temp sensor, tune-up, two engine seals, tig weld for gaps in aftermarket exhaust, blow off valve, shimmed wastegate, boost controller, new battery, alignment, tire balance (on an on-the-car balance machine as nothing else would work), reseal rear hatch, reseal windshield, replaced air conditioning panel (that's all that comes to mind from memory--I'm sure I'm leaving some things out).

My car is about 95% sorted out at this point, and considering what I've had to put into it, it should be. Despite all of this, I really enjoy the car. It's a very gratifying car to drive.

Will your 951 be the automotive equivalent of "The Picture of Dorian Gray?" Maybe yes, maybe no, but don't believe that you won't spend some time chasing down gremlins. Older cars need a lot of attention. If you've got the time and resources to restore your car to top mechanical condition, the 944 turbo may be your cup of tea. You can make these cars go very fast. It also helps of you're mechanically adept (regrettably, I'm not).

If all else fails, you could always divorce the wife and buy a Boxster S (j/k). Seriously, if your expectations are "appropriate" for an aging high performance car, you'll do fine with a 951.

Good luck with your decision in any event.

bradltl

Thanks for the help. I just found out the car that I was looking at, well it was sold. So I'm back to the looking around again!

fast951

Brad,

Don't feel bad about missing this particular car. From the report I received, it's not in the best shape.