I Finally found custom gears and r&p for the 968 tranny!
03-27-2011, 01:24 PM
#76
Nordschleife Master
Roger at California Motorsports is great. it's his boss (the owner) that's the problem, with his 300% markup on all parts including rebuild kits. on the upgrade, prices for each gearset went up from 7 hundred and change to 18 hundred and change. i got back on the internet and discovered Scott who gave it to me straight.
What Scott is able to offer you guys in the way of gearsets is something that was mass marketed in Europe and installed in 10's of thousands of Audis. The 968 gearsets CMS is offering you from Albins is something made in units of 10-15 sets at a time. It's a hugely different manufacturing proposition. That's the real reason for the price difference.
And if you don't believe me, get your local indy shop to call up or email Albins directly. PHII, may it rest in peace, used to be the North American exclusive distributor for Albins. When Roger left there and went to work for Bobby Hart about 3 years ago, he took that relationship with him. Up until about 6 months ago, CMS held that exclusive. They no longer do and ANY U.S. parts dealer can call them up and order parts at wholesale. In fact, you, as the end user may even be able to contact them yourself and order the parts directly. Report back with what you are told with respect to pricing. There's definitely not a 300% markup linked in there.
Furthermore, if there's any doubt to from anyone here about what I am saying about distribution I would remind you 944 guys about the old short ratio Audi r/p that used to be the hot ticket for 944 track oriented race boxes. What was retail on that unit? Maybe about $1500? It's because it came from a mass market Audi. If you call up Porsche and try to buy a r/p for a 968 gearbox, which is an exclusive Porsche configuration on a limited production vehicle, you will be told $3500-4000!!!
If you guys can get a small run of r/p's made for the 968 through Scotty at a list price of $2400 that's a great price for a custom piece. I manufacture special ratio ring and pinions in small production runs through Ricardo in the U.K. Scotty's retail price is almost what my cost is from Ricardo.
Sorry for the rant, but I've known Bobby Hart for a long time and he's the kind of guy in this industry who would give you the shirt off his back if you were cold. Porsche gearbox parts are silly expensive and Bobby isn't price gouging anyone. In fact, if you look at his own in house billet bits he makes for reinforcement of gearboxes, he's a good 10-15% below everyone else out there. In fact, isn't he currently doing a run of 968 sidecovers for you guys? What does it say about a man who is willing to do such a limited production product run and still try to keep it cost effective? Bobby is an awesome person and he doesn't deserve the insult that was levelled at him in the post above.
03-27-2011, 04:59 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Seems like a while ago since that post. I think it was with some changeouts of gears too maybe?
Anyway, I'd also like to concur that I've dealt with Roger on a couple of gearboxes and he's been nothing but fantastic to deal with. I've asked lots of questions and he's given me concise answers and in good time.
I'm getting some of those side plates. Didn't know anything about a run but the price seemed very reasonable. I've got nothing but good to say about CMS.
Anyway, I'd also like to concur that I've dealt with Roger on a couple of gearboxes and he's been nothing but fantastic to deal with. I've asked lots of questions and he's given me concise answers and in good time.
I'm getting some of those side plates. Didn't know anything about a run but the price seemed very reasonable. I've got nothing but good to say about CMS.
03-27-2011, 06:58 PM
#79
Nordschleife Master
I don't know anything about quantities, but it was just this last Friday that Roger told me they were doing enough 968 sidecovers to keep some on the shelf. Duke, I would email Roger and ask him about it.
And just as another data point, the reason Roger and I were talking is because we're in the process of gathering the Audi part numbers to offer cost effective service parts and rebuilding services on 987 chassis Boxsters and Caymans. There's one guy in the States currently rebuilding these boxes since they are so new that Porsche won't sell you synchros and bearings yet. He's taking full advantage of that situation and charging ridiculous prices (think Porsche Motorsports expensive) for things you can get from the Audi dealer for close to half the price. CMS and Guard Transmission are going to change that, and help the car owners get cost effective rebuilding services on their gearboxes when Porsche won't offer it. If Bobby were all about price gouging, don't you think we'd be charging the same prices as the other guy? What we think is going on is wrong, and I guess that's part of why that comment got me so up in arms.
In fact, Scott is part of the project as well, and is supplying me with some European Domestic Market short ratio ring and pinion sets that will fit a 5 spd Cayman for racing. Since nobody seems to know the part numbers on these we could charge "Porsche" prices on them but we won't. Scott gave me a good price on them, and when I take them to market at retail, aside from a reasonable markup, we won't be bending the car owners over the table. I'm buying the parts and stocking them, and CMS is going to be building the gearboxes for people. Long story short there are some of us out there in this industry who give a damn about more than just making as much money as we can.
Kind Regards,
Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC
And just as another data point, the reason Roger and I were talking is because we're in the process of gathering the Audi part numbers to offer cost effective service parts and rebuilding services on 987 chassis Boxsters and Caymans. There's one guy in the States currently rebuilding these boxes since they are so new that Porsche won't sell you synchros and bearings yet. He's taking full advantage of that situation and charging ridiculous prices (think Porsche Motorsports expensive) for things you can get from the Audi dealer for close to half the price. CMS and Guard Transmission are going to change that, and help the car owners get cost effective rebuilding services on their gearboxes when Porsche won't offer it. If Bobby were all about price gouging, don't you think we'd be charging the same prices as the other guy? What we think is going on is wrong, and I guess that's part of why that comment got me so up in arms.
In fact, Scott is part of the project as well, and is supplying me with some European Domestic Market short ratio ring and pinion sets that will fit a 5 spd Cayman for racing. Since nobody seems to know the part numbers on these we could charge "Porsche" prices on them but we won't. Scott gave me a good price on them, and when I take them to market at retail, aside from a reasonable markup, we won't be bending the car owners over the table. I'm buying the parts and stocking them, and CMS is going to be building the gearboxes for people. Long story short there are some of us out there in this industry who give a damn about more than just making as much money as we can.
Kind Regards,
Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC
03-28-2011, 03:16 AM
#80
Rennlist Member
Matt, thanks for your input and clarification on some of these matters. I believe it's really crucial to feel that at least some of the suppliers are still in touch with the buying public. I realise that as 944 owners we are in a tiny obscure niche market and don't get much attention so it's highly appreciated when people of your stature in the business even bother to respond in our section of the world.
Thanks.
Thanks.
03-28-2011, 10:25 AM
#82
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I know this goes back a few pages, but nobody ever seemed to answer this for you. The answer is that changing a ring and pinion ratio doesn't change your rpm drops at all. It changes the final multiplier, and only moves the gears around. If you rev your engine to redline with the new r/p in any gear, the rpms you enter the new gear at will be exactly the same as it was before the change.
I've been watching this thread and I just can't let this comment slide because it's insulted and defames the character of a very very cool man. Your statement couldn't be more inaccurate. Anyone who has been around Porsche racing circles for the last 20 years in this country knows Bobby Hart, the owner of CMS, and the integrity with which he runs his business. There's not a single part in CMS inventory that has a 300% markup. I think you may have confused mass production with custom and are erroneously dumping that issue on Bobby's character.
What Scott is able to offer you guys in the way of gearsets is something that was mass marketed in Europe and installed in 10's of thousands of Audis. The 968 gearsets CMS is offering you from Albins is something made in units of 10-15 sets at a time. It's a hugely different manufacturing proposition. That's the real reason for the price difference.
And if you don't believe me, get your local indy shop to call up or email Albins directly. PHII, may it rest in peace, used to be the North American exclusive distributor for Albins. When Roger left there and went to work for Bobby Hart about 3 years ago, he took that relationship with him. Up until about 6 months ago, CMS held that exclusive. They no longer do and ANY U.S. parts dealer can call them up and order parts at wholesale. In fact, you, as the end user may even be able to contact them yourself and order the parts directly. Report back with what you are told with respect to pricing. There's definitely not a 300% markup linked in there.
Furthermore, if there's any doubt to from anyone here about what I am saying about distribution I would remind you 944 guys about the old short ratio Audi r/p that used to be the hot ticket for 944 track oriented race boxes. What was retail on that unit? Maybe about $1500? It's because it came from a mass market Audi. If you call up Porsche and try to buy a r/p for a 968 gearbox, which is an exclusive Porsche configuration on a limited production vehicle, you will be told $3500-4000!!!
If you guys can get a small run of r/p's made for the 968 through Scotty at a list price of $2400 that's a great price for a custom piece. I manufacture special ratio ring and pinions in small production runs through Ricardo in the U.K. Scotty's retail price is almost what my cost is from Ricardo.
Sorry for the rant, but I've known Bobby Hart for a long time and he's the kind of guy in this industry who would give you the shirt off his back if you were cold. Porsche gearbox parts are silly expensive and Bobby isn't price gouging anyone. In fact, if you look at his own in house billet bits he makes for reinforcement of gearboxes, he's a good 10-15% below everyone else out there. In fact, isn't he currently doing a run of 968 sidecovers for you guys? What does it say about a man who is willing to do such a limited production product run and still try to keep it cost effective? Bobby is an awesome person and he doesn't deserve the insult that was levelled at him in the post above.
I've been watching this thread and I just can't let this comment slide because it's insulted and defames the character of a very very cool man. Your statement couldn't be more inaccurate. Anyone who has been around Porsche racing circles for the last 20 years in this country knows Bobby Hart, the owner of CMS, and the integrity with which he runs his business. There's not a single part in CMS inventory that has a 300% markup. I think you may have confused mass production with custom and are erroneously dumping that issue on Bobby's character.
What Scott is able to offer you guys in the way of gearsets is something that was mass marketed in Europe and installed in 10's of thousands of Audis. The 968 gearsets CMS is offering you from Albins is something made in units of 10-15 sets at a time. It's a hugely different manufacturing proposition. That's the real reason for the price difference.
And if you don't believe me, get your local indy shop to call up or email Albins directly. PHII, may it rest in peace, used to be the North American exclusive distributor for Albins. When Roger left there and went to work for Bobby Hart about 3 years ago, he took that relationship with him. Up until about 6 months ago, CMS held that exclusive. They no longer do and ANY U.S. parts dealer can call them up and order parts at wholesale. In fact, you, as the end user may even be able to contact them yourself and order the parts directly. Report back with what you are told with respect to pricing. There's definitely not a 300% markup linked in there.
Furthermore, if there's any doubt to from anyone here about what I am saying about distribution I would remind you 944 guys about the old short ratio Audi r/p that used to be the hot ticket for 944 track oriented race boxes. What was retail on that unit? Maybe about $1500? It's because it came from a mass market Audi. If you call up Porsche and try to buy a r/p for a 968 gearbox, which is an exclusive Porsche configuration on a limited production vehicle, you will be told $3500-4000!!!
If you guys can get a small run of r/p's made for the 968 through Scotty at a list price of $2400 that's a great price for a custom piece. I manufacture special ratio ring and pinions in small production runs through Ricardo in the U.K. Scotty's retail price is almost what my cost is from Ricardo.
Sorry for the rant, but I've known Bobby Hart for a long time and he's the kind of guy in this industry who would give you the shirt off his back if you were cold. Porsche gearbox parts are silly expensive and Bobby isn't price gouging anyone. In fact, if you look at his own in house billet bits he makes for reinforcement of gearboxes, he's a good 10-15% below everyone else out there. In fact, isn't he currently doing a run of 968 sidecovers for you guys? What does it say about a man who is willing to do such a limited production product run and still try to keep it cost effective? Bobby is an awesome person and he doesn't deserve the insult that was levelled at him in the post above.
03-28-2011, 07:03 PM
#83
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first of all your highness. stop making trouble and read the post. i never insulted Roger. second of all, i deleted that post AND thanked Matt for offering such a strong opinion about the owner. i was talking about a price increase that happened VIA his boss over the course of two phone conversations. during one conversation i had a price quote from Roger at $960. during the next conversation Bobby told me he'd get back to me. he did. with the higher price of $2100, which i assumed had a healthy profit added on.
i may have been premature in offering such an opinion, but my reaction to this course of events was fairly normal.
i may have been premature in offering such an opinion, but my reaction to this course of events was fairly normal.
03-29-2011, 10:41 AM
#84
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first of all your highness. stop making trouble and read the post. i never insulted Roger. second of all, i deleted that post AND thanked Matt for offering such a strong opinion about the owner. i was talking about a price increase that happened VIA his boss over the course of two phone conversations. during one conversation i had a price quote from Roger at $960. during the next conversation Bobby told me he'd get back to me. he did. with the higher price of $2100, which i assumed had a healthy profit added on.
i may have been premature in offering such an opinion, but my reaction to this course of events was fairly normal.
i may have been premature in offering such an opinion, but my reaction to this course of events was fairly normal.
03-31-2011, 01:13 AM
#85
Three Wheelin'
Great words Matt, looks like there are actually some Porsche service shops here that try to help us out?
Power Haus II close ratio gear set for Porsche 968 01E transaxle
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...6th-gears.html
Power Haus II close ratio gear set for Porsche 968 01E transaxle
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...6th-gears.html
03-31-2011, 03:15 PM
#86
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If a close ratio set is what people are seeking I have sourced a couple gear sets with these ratios. Used are also available but fairly difficult to locate.
Pricing will be a bit less.
# 3rd: 1.52
# 4th: 1.17
# 5th: 0.97
# 6th: 0.83
Pricing will be a bit less.
# 3rd: 1.52
# 4th: 1.17
# 5th: 0.97
# 6th: 0.83
04-02-2011, 05:41 PM
#87
Three Wheelin'
Check out this sequential shift mechanism setup for the 01E
http://www.sqsracing.com/aktuality/2...og-box-sequent
http://www.sqsracing.com/aktuality/2...og-box-sequent
04-02-2011, 05:50 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
I've looked at that but it's not a true sequential and is another thing that can break. Interesting though.
04-12-2011, 03:37 PM
#89
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Check out this sequential shift mechanism setup for the 01E
http://www.sqsracing.com/aktuality/2...og-box-sequent
http://www.sqsracing.com/aktuality/2...og-box-sequent
04-12-2011, 04:44 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
People have fascination with tech. Also a sequential is considered 'Race' and not without good reason. They do save you time on the track. However not sure about this one as it's not a true sequential box.