Building Aluminum Torque Tube.
01-21-2011, 06:30 AM
#16
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Another interesting project….I like watching this get fabricated! How about thinking about a good place for mounting a strain gauge? Nice to know instantaneous power output!
BTW – the other reason that the factory used the torque tube system is that it allowed them to assembly the drive train separate from the body and then drop the body onto the complete drive train.
BTW – the other reason that the factory used the torque tube system is that it allowed them to assembly the drive train separate from the body and then drop the body onto the complete drive train.
01-21-2011, 10:48 PM
#17
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Some serious work to get this done!
Do you have to run an intermediate sleeve between the tube and the housing?
Will you interferance fit the sleeve to the housing and then slide in the tube and weld it?
Have you thought about shortening the tube and drive shaft and move your engine rearwards?
Do you have to run an intermediate sleeve between the tube and the housing?
Will you interferance fit the sleeve to the housing and then slide in the tube and weld it?
Have you thought about shortening the tube and drive shaft and move your engine rearwards?
I gave serious thought to moving the engine back. but it cannot move more than an inch or 2 without moving the firewall. That is against most racing class rules. (EDIT: V8 shape allows a 3-4" rearward movement, so a shorter one is going to be made)
Another interesting project….I like watching this get fabricated! How about thinking about a good place for mounting a strain gauge? Nice to know instantaneous power output!
BTW – the other reason that the factory used the torque tube system is that it allowed them to assembly the drive train separate from the body and then drop the body onto the complete drive train.
BTW – the other reason that the factory used the torque tube system is that it allowed them to assembly the drive train separate from the body and then drop the body onto the complete drive train.
Chris, I would LOVE to put one in there.. not in the budget, unless you know of a cheap way to make all that work.. too many projects at the moment.
Last edited by 95ONE; 01-22-2012 at 11:58 AM.
01-22-2011, 01:54 AM
#18
Bannana Shine
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Yes.. I am running an intermediate sleeve. It gets here on Monday. It will be a SMALL interference fit. I will be cutting holes in the sleeve. probably 6 of them. After the sleeve is snugged in where it needs to be, I will weld the obvious point on the outside, and then inside where those holes are. Kinda like spot welding, but in a much more serious way. Then i will slip in the actual torque tube, very much like the original design. BUT, shape of the cut on the sleeve will be like one you see on custom suspension arms. it will look like a sine wave. which obviously gives a larger welding seam in multiple directions. The fit will also be an interference fit, but a little tighter since the sleeve will be quite strong. much stronger than just the cast piece
01-22-2011, 05:33 AM
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LOL yeah.. which is why I said I would explain the method and welding later.. when I have photos to show you exactly what i mean.. I will take photos every step of the way.
Here are a few of what i was doing tonight to kill time before the other tube gets here.
Here are a few of what i was doing tonight to kill time before the other tube gets here.
Last edited by 95ONE; 01-22-2011 at 06:18 AM.
01-22-2011, 08:31 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
ok.. I looked up 6061 strengths like yield and tensile. they seem to be as strong as the original tube which I am guessing is in the 1010 or 1020 classification. it cut extremely easy and was very soft (Original Torque tube) the only difference was the modulus of elasticity. It is (all class of Aluminum) around 1/3 that of the steel. Thickness will fix that. The Stock thickness of the steel tube seems to be .165 wall. using my digital calipers. I have a .250 wall pipe. This makes the pipe I have actually STRONGER/STIFFER than the original torque tube. I might actually turn it down on a lathe to a .185 wall thickness. I don't need anything near as stiff as the .250. BUT.. I can sell these to anyone who wants a .250 wall.. DONT GET ME WRONG.. I'm not looking into getting into the business of selling these on purpose.. ONLY for those who beg and plead with me to make them one, as there seems to be a gap in the supply vs demand arena. And the work to get the torque tube out of the cast aluminum housing is a serious pain. serious..... pain...... lol.. anyway. Moving on
Here is a pic of the same spots that were broken off from the picture above, but this time the two knicks in the aluminum have been ground down for smoothness and weld-ability. The next pic shows the spots puddled in with filler rod. The cast housing is going to be taken to a friends machine shop to open up the hole about 1/8" it will cut and clean up the dirty and splined inside diameter for my intermediate pipe insert piece to butt smoothly against.. It will actually be a .003 interference fit (Heat up cast housing, let pipe sit outside in cold- slide tube in..housing cools, pipe warms, material binds together.) along with those old school welding tricks I was telling you about earlier. once again, I will detail those out when the time comes. Last pic is of the large tube that has already arrived. Short intermediate "sleeve" will be in on Monday.. crap, I just remembered i need to buy the delrin inserts for the bushings.. where do i get those again?
Anyway.. pics are below.
Here is a pic of the same spots that were broken off from the picture above, but this time the two knicks in the aluminum have been ground down for smoothness and weld-ability. The next pic shows the spots puddled in with filler rod. The cast housing is going to be taken to a friends machine shop to open up the hole about 1/8" it will cut and clean up the dirty and splined inside diameter for my intermediate pipe insert piece to butt smoothly against.. It will actually be a .003 interference fit (Heat up cast housing, let pipe sit outside in cold- slide tube in..housing cools, pipe warms, material binds together.) along with those old school welding tricks I was telling you about earlier. once again, I will detail those out when the time comes. Last pic is of the large tube that has already arrived. Short intermediate "sleeve" will be in on Monday.. crap, I just remembered i need to buy the delrin inserts for the bushings.. where do i get those again?
Anyway.. pics are below.
And I may or may not have ever had any experience with 6061... it is neat stuff.. just watch your heat... and pre-heat where possible.. OH and another thing.. keep it clean before, during, and after the welds.. you will thank me later...
AND I am intrigued by your mention of "Common welders tricks" as the only common welders tricks I have ever observed usually ended badly...
Once upon a time, in a previous life, on a plane of reality not so far removed from this one... I may or may not have been a CWI primarily dealing with AWS and CVWS welding on 6061 and a few other alloys.. but that probably was a LONG time ago... Just last week I was eating dinner with a few folks.. one of which is a seated board member for both spec owners review committees... and changes are coming to MOST if not all welding specs... but you didn't hear that from me... I wasn't there... I didn't do it...
01-22-2011, 09:45 AM
#21
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apparently there is a fair bit of calculation positioning those bearings in the correct place on the shaft so it doesn't whip or shake so best to have them the same place ..
nice to see some one get more more carried away then me on there build..
and as for welding tricks its much like painting ...
PPPPPP Prior preparation prevents **** pore performance .
nice to see some one get more more carried away then me on there build..
and as for welding tricks its much like painting ...
PPPPPP Prior preparation prevents **** pore performance .
01-22-2011, 09:57 AM
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01-22-2011, 09:58 AM
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01-22-2011, 02:05 PM
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IMHO, contact Constantine for his shaft carriers... no delrin inserts needed..
And I may or may not have ever had any experience with 6061... it is neat stuff.. just watch your heat... and pre-heat where possible.. OH and another thing.. keep it clean before, during, and after the welds.. you will thank me later...
AND I am intrigued by your mention of "Common welders tricks" as the only common welders tricks I have ever observed usually ended badly...
Once upon a time, in a previous life, on a plane of reality not so far removed from this one... I may or may not have been a CWI primarily dealing with AWS and CVWS welding on 6061 and a few other alloys.. but that probably was a LONG time ago... Just last week I was eating dinner with a few folks.. one of which is a seated board member for both spec owners review committees... and changes are coming to MOST if not all welding specs... but you didn't hear that from me... I wasn't there... I didn't do it...
And I may or may not have ever had any experience with 6061... it is neat stuff.. just watch your heat... and pre-heat where possible.. OH and another thing.. keep it clean before, during, and after the welds.. you will thank me later...
AND I am intrigued by your mention of "Common welders tricks" as the only common welders tricks I have ever observed usually ended badly...
Once upon a time, in a previous life, on a plane of reality not so far removed from this one... I may or may not have been a CWI primarily dealing with AWS and CVWS welding on 6061 and a few other alloys.. but that probably was a LONG time ago... Just last week I was eating dinner with a few folks.. one of which is a seated board member for both spec owners review committees... and changes are coming to MOST if not all welding specs... but you didn't hear that from me... I wasn't there... I didn't do it...
But.. when I say "tricks" I truly don't mean fancy stuff. I was just talking about the shape of the cut on the pipe, and the holes on the inside. Nothing more really.. but visually people who don't weld will understand why. SO.. nothing like a special Backgassed Argon Helium mix. (lol wait.. yes I weld that way often!) or using DC current with pure helium. - Not this time - BUT.. On stuff like this, I will warm up parts considerably. The thick stuff Really needs it. I DO have a pretty decent water cooled TIG at my disposal though. AND I have had to weld some pretty bad head castings (To fix holes or cracks for a fellow head porter) and cleanliness goes a long way.. actually, its most the way If I dont clean it, the impurities get in there and you can NEVER get it out. SO... The welding should go well, I welcome any advice on maintaining as much strength as I can on/near the welds.
01-22-2011, 02:19 PM
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Chris, There are some areas that are well done, and there are some areas that are very strong and functional, but I didn't wast time on being pretty. Much of it is just roughed in and not really finished yet. . I'll start taking more pics of the good stuff in the coming months.. Other than that, most of it is just raw and needs finishing touches.
01-22-2011, 06:04 PM
#27
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Are you rebuilding Mad Max's car?
01-22-2011, 07:16 PM
#28
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hey Bruce heres some welding tips you already knew but always need reminding of.
As the heat is flowing way from the weld fast in the ultra conductive substrate is always an issue setting it up on 2 propane BBQ 's with the hotplates removed is probably gonna help.
good lighting so you can see through the pre-tint of your mask
perhaps go find a cryo treater who has had good results with welded aluminium .
but realy i think your on the path to greatness already
As the heat is flowing way from the weld fast in the ultra conductive substrate is always an issue setting it up on 2 propane BBQ 's with the hotplates removed is probably gonna help.
good lighting so you can see through the pre-tint of your mask
perhaps go find a cryo treater who has had good results with welded aluminium .
but realy i think your on the path to greatness already
01-22-2011, 07:59 PM
#30
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Auto-darkening is all I've ever known.. But still.. yes. Lighting is set, and the hot plates are a great idea. I've them a few times in the past. It goes a LONG way with large pieces of aluminum that just Spreads the heat out fast making it difficult to get a strong puddle started.
And it helps to have a decent welder.. It's not Baller, but plenty strong for 99% of what happens here.
And it helps to have a decent welder.. It's not Baller, but plenty strong for 99% of what happens here.