Girdle / lower block half question
01-08-2011, 01:33 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Girdle / lower block half question
Rebuilding an engine and replacing the main bearings. Should I have loctited all the bolts / nuts that hold the lower part of the block to the upper part of the block (girdle to block). I've heard mention of using loctite 270 here? Thats loctite red?
I assembled this whole section and torqued to spec and did not loctite. Not a big deal for me to go back and pull the pan and do this, but if it is unecessary I won't tear in again. I'd also prefer not to untorque everything and retorque a second time. Safety wire?
I assembled this whole section and torqued to spec and did not loctite. Not a big deal for me to go back and pull the pan and do this, but if it is unecessary I won't tear in again. I'd also prefer not to untorque everything and retorque a second time. Safety wire?
01-08-2011, 02:03 AM
#2
Three Wheelin'
The factory workshop manual does not call for 270 on any of the upper to lower crankcase fasteners.
You did use 574 between the upper and lower crankcase, along the oil pickup path and near the flywheel, correct?
You did use 574 between the upper and lower crankcase, along the oil pickup path and near the flywheel, correct?
01-08-2011, 02:08 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
ok,
#1 you need loctite 574 flange sealant between the girdle and the block... because.
#2 usually you only use motor oil for the nuts and studs and torque to spec with the proper seqence and stretch method. If you were to use any loctite at all, I would only use the blue medium stuff or even milder if possible. You also need to compensate the torque value when using loctite on threads in general vs. oil .
#3 check the end play on the crankshaft, (you should have done so before your initial disassembly ( so technically this is number 1 !)
#4 use ultimate secret master wizardry to make the gap between the block and girdle in front where the oil pump goes as flush as possible or you will prematurely wear out your oil pump.
If you torque fasteners properly with consistency and accuracy and proper lubrication, you are generally good to go , depending on how extreme you are talking of course. did you change your rod bolts? use arp! did you check your side clearance on the rods?? You better do it now if you haven't yet!
good luck!
#1 you need loctite 574 flange sealant between the girdle and the block... because.
#2 usually you only use motor oil for the nuts and studs and torque to spec with the proper seqence and stretch method. If you were to use any loctite at all, I would only use the blue medium stuff or even milder if possible. You also need to compensate the torque value when using loctite on threads in general vs. oil .
#3 check the end play on the crankshaft, (you should have done so before your initial disassembly ( so technically this is number 1 !)
#4 use ultimate secret master wizardry to make the gap between the block and girdle in front where the oil pump goes as flush as possible or you will prematurely wear out your oil pump.
If you torque fasteners properly with consistency and accuracy and proper lubrication, you are generally good to go , depending on how extreme you are talking of course. did you change your rod bolts? use arp! did you check your side clearance on the rods?? You better do it now if you haven't yet!
good luck!
Last edited by kev951; 01-08-2011 at 05:14 AM.
01-08-2011, 03:12 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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@fortysixandtwo - Yes used 574 to seal the surface between the two. Thanks for the tip on 270 I was hoping this was the case!
@kev951
Yes just had a light oil on the nuts / bolts and torqued to spec. There was an overlap of material where the oilpump mounts at the union of the girdle / block that I could not adjust out. I lapped this out till I could barely catch my fingernail picking at it and then torqued the oil pump down using 574 again between the surfaces. Side clearance on the rods(I've spun the assembly around several times by hand and everything clears)??? I plastigauged everything to verify clearances / check for taper. All looked great in rods and mains. What do you mean by side clearance?
@kev951
Yes just had a light oil on the nuts / bolts and torqued to spec. There was an overlap of material where the oilpump mounts at the union of the girdle / block that I could not adjust out. I lapped this out till I could barely catch my fingernail picking at it and then torqued the oil pump down using 574 again between the surfaces. Side clearance on the rods(I've spun the assembly around several times by hand and everything clears)??? I plastigauged everything to verify clearances / check for taper. All looked great in rods and mains. What do you mean by side clearance?
01-08-2011, 05:11 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
for side clearance, ie; for oil to get where it needs to besides the bearing crush clearance, you need a minimum of 0.010" on each side of the BIG end of the rod between the crankshaft. ( the clearance between the two) this is the amount of wiggle there is rocking the rod back and forth . you should feel a slight wiggle. If you know what 0.010" feels like from building tons of engines, your good to go 
If you don't know, start with feeler gages . You want a MINIMUM of .010" on each side of the big end of each rod . any less and you will have premature bearing failure.
I can send you some pics if you are still confused.
Kev
If you don't know, start with feeler gages . You want a MINIMUM of .010" on each side of the big end of each rod . any less and you will have premature bearing failure.
I can send you some pics if you are still confused.
Kev
01-08-2011, 09:10 AM
#6
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for side clearance, ie; for oil to get where it needs to besides the bearing crush clearance, you need a minimum of 0.010" on each side of the BIG end of the rod between the crankshaft. ( the clearance between the two) this is the amount of wiggle there is rocking the rod back and forth . you should feel a slight wiggle. If you know what 0.010" feels like from building tons of engines, your good to go
If you don't know, start with feeler gages . You want a MINIMUM of .010" on each side of the big end of each rod . any less and you will have premature bearing failure.
I can send you some pics if you are still confused.
Kev
If you don't know, start with feeler gages . You want a MINIMUM of .010" on each side of the big end of each rod . any less and you will have premature bearing failure.
I can send you some pics if you are still confused.
Kev
01-08-2011, 11:22 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
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@kev951 - These are the orginal forged rods going back on the same crank. Neither was really altered other than re-polishing the crankshaft. I do seem to remember them having a little room to slide foward / back on the journals and thought this was to allow for that lateral runout on the crankshaft but what you said makes sense. Thanks so much for the help and advice!!! Seriously! I'm starting to get nervous as the day gets close to put the motor back in the car haha! Just wanted to double check!
@Chris - Thanks for the tip! - I feel honored when I get you to post in one of my threads bahaha
@Chris - Thanks for the tip! - I feel honored when I get you to post in one of my threads bahaha
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01-08-2011, 02:08 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
pj,
no problemo!! reason why I mention is sometimes, when people get their cranks nitrided, they forget to account for the added growth on the crank and totally overlook the side clearance, ... sometimes. ask me how I know? haha.. I made this mistake building my first track motor! I obviously checked and found these errors, which I had forgot to factor in at the time ( back in 2001) . I did catch it and correct the problem before going back in the car! I am currently building a 2.5 alusil motor with wossner pistons. pic time perhaps?
no problemo!! reason why I mention is sometimes, when people get their cranks nitrided, they forget to account for the added growth on the crank and totally overlook the side clearance, ... sometimes. ask me how I know? haha.. I made this mistake building my first track motor! I obviously checked and found these errors, which I had forgot to factor in at the time ( back in 2001) . I did catch it and correct the problem before going back in the car! I am currently building a 2.5 alusil motor with wossner pistons. pic time perhaps?
