951 LS1 dyno tune video
12-21-2010, 03:16 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
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You are completely right John. I'll never understand why people are still swapping the GenIII LS1/LS6 in their 944. It just doesn't deliver for the price of the complete swap.
12-21-2010, 04:04 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
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Also, the '01+ LS1's come stock with the LS6 intake and i believe the TB is the same. The MAF is different on the LS6. The LS6 block has internal windowing that supposedly decreases windage, but how that translates to the real world hasn't been readily apparent.
I'd spend the extra money on an LS6 if i were picking up a new crate motor, but i don't think anybody is going to be disappointed if they go LS1.
12-21-2010, 04:10 PM
#48
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Because the LS2 is hardly any better than the LS1, and the LS3 is prohibitively expensive at this time.
12-21-2010, 04:56 PM
#49
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I think the fact that you seem content with your 340whp, shows that we're coming from two completely different places. The white wheels also give that away
No need to argue or discuss it further. I am very glad you're happy with it! That is what the conversion is all about.But, I can offer an alternate opinion for the people who are in the planning stages of their swap...I know too many people who have done the conversion who weren't satisfied with the LS1. Not that they were unhappy with the car, but they were expecting more performance for the total cost. I've also driven and tuned enough swaps back to back to know that the LS2 is LOT more than "hardly any better". I would recommend to anybody doing the conversion today to start with a Gen IV. The 4" bore opens up a whole new world of options.
12-21-2010, 05:58 PM
#50
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You sound like the LT1 guys did a few years ago.
I think the fact that you seem content with your 340whp, shows that we're coming from two completely different places. The white wheels also give that away No need to argue or discuss it further. I am very glad you're happy with it! That is what the conversion is all about.
But, I can offer an alternate opinion for the people who are in the planning stages of their swap...I know too many people who have done the conversion who weren't satisfied with the LS1. Not that they were unhappy with the car, but they were expecting more performance for the total cost. I've also driven and tuned enough swaps back to back to know that the LS2 is LOT more than "hardly any better". I would recommend to anybody doing the conversion today to start with a Gen IV. The 4" bore opens up a whole new world of options.
I think the fact that you seem content with your 340whp, shows that we're coming from two completely different places. The white wheels also give that away
No need to argue or discuss it further. I am very glad you're happy with it! That is what the conversion is all about.But, I can offer an alternate opinion for the people who are in the planning stages of their swap...I know too many people who have done the conversion who weren't satisfied with the LS1. Not that they were unhappy with the car, but they were expecting more performance for the total cost. I've also driven and tuned enough swaps back to back to know that the LS2 is LOT more than "hardly any better". I would recommend to anybody doing the conversion today to start with a Gen IV. The 4" bore opens up a whole new world of options.
A whole new world of options? Yeah, right.
You could put some factory cylinder heads from an L92 on it, and that's about it. The LS2 intake isn't as good as the late LS1/LS6 intake. As-cast aftermarket heads (TFS, AFR, Dart, etc.) or ported 5.3/LS6 heads will outflow any factory cylinder head you can bolt on to the LS2's bore and make more than enough power to keep anyone in a 944 happy.
I'm glad you're happy with your LS2, but don't go fooling yourself--it's just an LS2. It has a few minor differences from the LS1 and an extra .3 liters. Just about anyone who buys an LS1 is going to change the oil pump and timing chain, so there goes half the difference already. It wasn't worth the extra $1k for an LS2 to me. It's definitely no LS3, 7, or 9.
Last edited by LS1Porch; 12-21-2010 at 07:15 PM.
12-21-2010, 08:55 PM
#53
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12-22-2010, 01:48 AM
#55
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I can answer that for you.. YES. He will be there. I will hopefully be out there with Him. If my 3 liter blows.. I will have an L33 waiting to go in also. I'm pickin one up Friday. BUT. .. the 3.0 turbo. will be in full force... FIRST.
12-22-2010, 03:00 AM
#57
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Tony, have you checked what an LS1 crate costs from them? I guess I could give them a shout, they are just across town. Curious if there is a big price difference between going LS1 vs LS6. Obviously you would eat a few hundred bucks changing to an LS6 intake, but what else is different between the two engines? Heads I assume will flow more. I am on the fence and about to fall off at this point. Tired of putting 2.5L engines in the track car, lol.
1. ... that price is for a long block. You still have to get your own intake/fuel rail/injector setup and a Camaro or TransAM front accessory setup.
2. There is a lot more that's different besides the cylinder heads between a LS1 and LS6. These are:
a) compression ration is 1/2 point higher in the LS6
b) the LS6 has sodium filled exhaust valves and hollow stem stainless intake valves (which are taller too)
c) heads flow considerably more on the intake side and a lot more on the exhaust side (different shaped exhaust port) on the LS6
d) far better PCV system on the LS6 (block based vs valve cover based)
e) far better cylinder-to-cylinder breathing (lower pumping losses)
f) full windage tray on the LS6 vs 3/4 windage tray on the LS1
g) LS6 has bigger cam
h) (the other small things I missed...)
3) The LS1, while a complete engine vs a long block, costs more!
When you can get a LS6 long block for this price (with a warranty)... there's no reason to consider a used, 7+ year old LS1.
You can source a LS6 intake from various forums complete with the stock fuel rails and injectors. Aftermarket larger throttle bodies are plentiful.
TonyG
12-22-2010, 03:02 AM
#58
Rennlist Junkie Forever
12-22-2010, 01:50 PM
#59
Burning Brakes
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12-22-2010, 02:10 PM
#60
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A fellow lister offered you driving his car and you just respond like nothing less than an *******.
nice