LS1Porch

That depends. As far as i know the LS1 (and maybe LS2) accessory drives are the only ones that fit under the hood of the 944. The truck motors also have taller intakes and the accessories are usually placed up higher.

So by the time you buy an L33 motor, a complete LS1 accessory setup (good luck finding a plentiful source), an LS6 or aftermarket intake manifold, and all the other little bits and pieces...you'd have been better off getting an LS1.

TonyG

Yeah...

Except that they only made LS1's between 1998 - 2004, which means the "newest" used LS1 you could hope to find would be 7 years old... the oldest 13 years old.

How many 30K mile, 7 year old LS1's are still realistically around? Even if it was a 2004 LS1 with 30K on it, that would mean that at an average 12,500 miles per year, the car it was out of was driven till 2006, wrecked or stolen, then just sat till 2011.

What I'm trying to say is that genuine proven low mileage LS1's are almost impossible to find.

All these older engines are getting hard to find with actual low mileage. They are just getting old.


Something to consider....


TonyG

docwyte

Good point. Now that we have the motors in our cars, if something happens it's easier to get a crate motor like you did Tony.

That's not financially viable to start out with though...

LS1Porch

Is the L33 that much easier to find? I'd think that would be even harder to find.

I would bet that the LS2 and LS3 stuff would be a closer fit than an L33. The difference between a truck motor and a car motor is what matters for fitting these engines into the 944. Truck motors are physically larger (accessories, intake, and oil pan) because they don't need to fit in a small engine bay.

My point is: the truck motors may be cheaper initially, but in the long run by the time you track down all the parts needed, they may not save you a whole lot.

TonyG

Yeah... but it's a lot of work to R&R the engine, plus to switch over all of the parts from one engine to the other.

I just did it. And it's not a weekend job.

Not to mention, that if you're at a race and the engine dies (like mine did) you blow your weekend (the money it costs to get to and from the track, track entry fees, food, etc....)

TonyG

docwyte

Sure it's a lot of work! But we already have the cars setup for an LSx motor. Much easier to buy a new crate motor than grab another used motor of unknown provenance...

968ls1

A L33 truck long block with F-body accessories/intake and ecu would be one route but probably more of a pain to gather up than just buying a complete F body LS1 or GTO LS2. A 4.0 bore LS2 would also offer the option of using LS3 heads if you decided to upgrade and they make a good bit more power than the cathedral port design.

VOoDOoGTX

why does everyone go strait to LS1 engines. The LS2s ect are the same thing as well as the LQ engines only these are cast iron. Its all LS based. I can bolt on the accessory's from a LS1 to my LQ4 and run it. That what i plan on doing with the LQ engine i just built for my truck, LS6 intake manifold and a the accessory's from a LS1 or LS2. That should put everything right where it should be.

porshhhh951

I gotta be honest, with everything involved in doing the swap I could never see myself buying a motor that's 10 years old. I'd buy a crate ls3 spend a few thousand more than the crate ls1 and call it a day. If your doing a budget build I don't think I'd recommend doing a motor swap unless you are confident you can complete the job yourself.

I really do not believe in cheep or easy with these cars. Not if you want it right and reliable. I see lots of people make claims and then never produce, I also see people talk about how easy this or that is and it turns out 6 months later they are having issues. I love the idea of a ls swapped 944 and I think it would it a great track performer. Do I think it would be cheep or easy? No but, then again what is with these cars.

A mild cam, exhaust, tune LS3 is a easy 450rwhp all day with a powerband that could choke a hippo. I bet it'd be a lot of fun on the street too.

TonyG

You answered the biggest question: Cast Iron.

TonyG

TonyG

I can get brand new (with factory GM 12/12,000 warranty) crate LS6 long blocks for $3250 delivered.

The LS2's aren't worth the difference.

The LS3's are for sure..... but they cost at least 3x-4x the cost of the brand new LS6 (which will make 425RWHP all day long with a mild cam, header/exhaust, and custom tune w/o cats.

TonyG

That

LS1Porch

The LS1's are proven performers. The LS2's had some piston slap issues and i saw one too many that just suddenly let go for no good reason. In short, they weren't a major improvement over the LS1, they cost more, and their quality was hit-or-miss. The LS3's are nice, but like Tony said, they cost a lot more.

The LQ4's are nice, but, iron.

The thing is--how much power are you wanting here? Sure the LS3 is capable of more, but in the end our transaxles/CV axles/tires can only hold so much power. The LS1 is more than capable of hitting that power threshold for less than an LS3/7/9. If you're aiming to make 500+ horsepower, i'll tell you right now you're doing it in the wrong chassis.

Take that "few thousand more dollars" and multiply it by 2, then enjoy the extra 50 horsepower. It's diminishing returns at some point. Personally i'd rather take the $3-5k i saved on not buying an LS3 and put it into a really nice suspension setup.

PorscheDoc

Tony, have you checked what an LS1 crate costs from them? I guess I could give them a shout, they are just across town. Curious if there is a big price difference between going LS1 vs LS6. Obviously you would eat a few hundred bucks changing to an LS6 intake, but what else is different between the two engines? Heads I assume will flow more. I am on the fence and about to fall off at this point. Tired of putting 2.5L engines in the track car, lol.

docwyte

The LS6 heads are substantially better than the LS1 heads. The LS6 has a bigger intake manifold and throttle body as well and I believe has more compression...

eclou

Once you have done the swap, I don't see a need to ever get a new longblock unless yours implodes. An L33/LS1 shortblock is all you need for spares.