WTB NON- stock Boost Pipes
11-21-2010, 11:22 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It's tough, between being OCB about look of the car, vs being the man who will, "Hunt and fish for his breakfast," it's hard ...
But being the frugal soul that I am, ... I can't bring myself to pull the trigger ....
So unless I find some used for sale ... I'll do without them
11-22-2010, 01:11 AM
#17
FWIW, I ran home made pvc intercooler pipes on a 951 for about three years, when I sold the car. They were still on the car when I saw it a few years later. I never had a problem with them and beat the heck out of that car.
11-22-2010, 06:59 AM
#18
I was willing to pay for the SFR hard pipes as I installed the Stage 2 intercooler and wanted a complete set up that I knew would fit straight.
I would have kept the stock pipes with the stock intercooler, can't see the point in replacing them even though one looks funny without the airbox.
I would have kept the stock pipes with the stock intercooler, can't see the point in replacing them even though one looks funny without the airbox.
11-22-2010, 04:12 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I was willing to pay for the SFR hard pipes as I installed the Stage 2 intercooler and wanted a complete set up that I knew would fit straight.
I would have kept the stock pipes with the stock intercooler, can't see the point in replacing them even though one looks funny without the airbox.
I would have kept the stock pipes with the stock intercooler, can't see the point in replacing them even though one looks funny without the airbox.
11-22-2010, 04:16 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
11-22-2010, 04:59 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
So, you guys keep referring to the price, and cost of having one offs made and such..
What would everyone consider a valid, reasonable price point?
Remember the capitalists creedo.. "The sting of high prices is shorter than the pain of poor quality"
$300?
$250?
Remember, the folks making these as "bolt on" upgrades are working for a living, this is their job, this is their livelyhood... and if you want them to be around in 5 years, they need to make a profit...
equipment and manpower cost money, as does just doing business.. these are costs put up in front, and recouped over the long haul...
I am sure an exhaust shop COULD build you a set, but it might take them a time or 2 to get it right without a piece to duplicate.. not to mention it would be out of good old exhaust steel... not too many exhaust shops I have seen stock 6061 aluminum, and 304/321 stainless is pricey in small quantities..
Sooo, back to my question, what is a reasonable price point?
IMHO, I don't see a problem with the prices currently out there, but I am not against another shop getting into the fray... but be advised.. he who has low profit margin, and limited market, will soon find himself with only a fool for an employee!
As an aside, IF the market is 10,000, you MIGHT hope to capture 10% (1000) but realistically get 1% (100).. development costs aside (they are really negligible for a piece like these pipes) you are looking at 2K in equipment, plus material, plus labor.. and these are just minimums..
SOOOO the first 100 pieces you sell, you need at least $20 in profit, just to cover the equipment costs, then you have the material and labor costs... lets call labor at 1 hour, say a nice even $100. Then materials.. lets go for a nice round number, albeit a low one, but hey were just talking semantics here right? Hows $50 sound?
Sooo, before you get to business profit, overhead charges, or recurring costs.. we are at $170, just to break even, on 100 units sold... 100 units...
I am personally OK with the $350 price point, given the scope of the suppliers efforts, and my interest in them continuing to perform the service...
but thats just me...
As usual I could be wrong...
What would everyone consider a valid, reasonable price point?
Remember the capitalists creedo.. "The sting of high prices is shorter than the pain of poor quality"
$300?
$250?
Remember, the folks making these as "bolt on" upgrades are working for a living, this is their job, this is their livelyhood... and if you want them to be around in 5 years, they need to make a profit...
equipment and manpower cost money, as does just doing business.. these are costs put up in front, and recouped over the long haul...
I am sure an exhaust shop COULD build you a set, but it might take them a time or 2 to get it right without a piece to duplicate.. not to mention it would be out of good old exhaust steel... not too many exhaust shops I have seen stock 6061 aluminum, and 304/321 stainless is pricey in small quantities..
Sooo, back to my question, what is a reasonable price point?
IMHO, I don't see a problem with the prices currently out there, but I am not against another shop getting into the fray... but be advised.. he who has low profit margin, and limited market, will soon find himself with only a fool for an employee!
As an aside, IF the market is 10,000, you MIGHT hope to capture 10% (1000) but realistically get 1% (100).. development costs aside (they are really negligible for a piece like these pipes) you are looking at 2K in equipment, plus material, plus labor.. and these are just minimums..
SOOOO the first 100 pieces you sell, you need at least $20 in profit, just to cover the equipment costs, then you have the material and labor costs... lets call labor at 1 hour, say a nice even $100. Then materials.. lets go for a nice round number, albeit a low one, but hey were just talking semantics here right? Hows $50 sound?
Sooo, before you get to business profit, overhead charges, or recurring costs.. we are at $170, just to break even, on 100 units sold... 100 units...
I am personally OK with the $350 price point, given the scope of the suppliers efforts, and my interest in them continuing to perform the service...
but thats just me...
As usual I could be wrong...
11-22-2010, 06:14 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So, you guys keep referring to the price, and cost of having one offs made and such..
What would everyone consider a valid, reasonable price point?
Remember the capitalists creedo.. "The sting of high prices is shorter than the pain of poor quality"
$300?
$250?
Remember, the folks making these as "bolt on" upgrades are working for a living, this is their job, this is their livelyhood... and if you want them to be around in 5 years, they need to make a profit...
equipment and manpower cost money, as does just doing business.. these are costs put up in front, and recouped over the long haul...
I am sure an exhaust shop COULD build you a set, but it might take them a time or 2 to get it right without a piece to duplicate.. not to mention it would be out of good old exhaust steel... not too many exhaust shops I have seen stock 6061 aluminum, and 304/321 stainless is pricey in small quantities..
Sooo, back to my question, what is a reasonable price point?
IMHO, I don't see a problem with the prices currently out there, but I am not against another shop getting into the fray... but be advised.. he who has low profit margin, and limited market, will soon find himself with only a fool for an employee!
As an aside, IF the market is 10,000, you MIGHT hope to capture 10% (1000) but realistically get 1% (100).. development costs aside (they are really negligible for a piece like these pipes) you are looking at 2K in equipment, plus material, plus labor.. and these are just minimums..
SOOOO the first 100 pieces you sell, you need at least $20 in profit, just to cover the equipment costs, then you have the material and labor costs... lets call labor at 1 hour, say a nice even $100. Then materials.. lets go for a nice round number, albeit a low one, but hey were just talking semantics here right? Hows $50 sound?
Sooo, before you get to business profit, overhead charges, or recurring costs.. we are at $170, just to break even, on 100 units sold... 100 units...
I am personally OK with the $350 price point, given the scope of the suppliers efforts, and my interest in them continuing to perform the service...
but thats just me...
As usual I could be wrong...
What would everyone consider a valid, reasonable price point?
Remember the capitalists creedo.. "The sting of high prices is shorter than the pain of poor quality"
$300?
$250?
Remember, the folks making these as "bolt on" upgrades are working for a living, this is their job, this is their livelyhood... and if you want them to be around in 5 years, they need to make a profit...
equipment and manpower cost money, as does just doing business.. these are costs put up in front, and recouped over the long haul...
I am sure an exhaust shop COULD build you a set, but it might take them a time or 2 to get it right without a piece to duplicate.. not to mention it would be out of good old exhaust steel... not too many exhaust shops I have seen stock 6061 aluminum, and 304/321 stainless is pricey in small quantities..
Sooo, back to my question, what is a reasonable price point?
IMHO, I don't see a problem with the prices currently out there, but I am not against another shop getting into the fray... but be advised.. he who has low profit margin, and limited market, will soon find himself with only a fool for an employee!
As an aside, IF the market is 10,000, you MIGHT hope to capture 10% (1000) but realistically get 1% (100).. development costs aside (they are really negligible for a piece like these pipes) you are looking at 2K in equipment, plus material, plus labor.. and these are just minimums..
SOOOO the first 100 pieces you sell, you need at least $20 in profit, just to cover the equipment costs, then you have the material and labor costs... lets call labor at 1 hour, say a nice even $100. Then materials.. lets go for a nice round number, albeit a low one, but hey were just talking semantics here right? Hows $50 sound?
Sooo, before you get to business profit, overhead charges, or recurring costs.. we are at $170, just to break even, on 100 units sold... 100 units...
I am personally OK with the $350 price point, given the scope of the suppliers efforts, and my interest in them continuing to perform the service...
but thats just me...
As usual I could be wrong...
Its just that if the price point was 250 ... my guess is that they would sell over 2x the amount they sell now ..?
Although, I probably shouldn't comment on production of items, I know little about ..i.e cost of manufacturing the actual finished product
It just seems so glaring, that the cost of the raw material seemed so inexpensive ....
11-22-2010, 09:24 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
I think what you said, I pretty much agree with ....
Its just that if the price point was 250 ... my guess is that they would sell over 2x the amount they sell now ..?
Although, I probably shouldn't comment on production of items, I know little about ..i.e cost of manufacturing the actual finished product
It just seems so glaring, that the cost of the raw material seemed so inexpensive ....
Its just that if the price point was 250 ... my guess is that they would sell over 2x the amount they sell now ..?
Although, I probably shouldn't comment on production of items, I know little about ..i.e cost of manufacturing the actual finished product
It just seems so glaring, that the cost of the raw material seemed so inexpensive ....
I could go on a rant here, but won't.. many vendors have tried to apease the masses, and have fallen by the wayside..
You can have everything you want good, fast, or cheap... and often can have any 2 of the 3, but will never get all 3 together...
I still to this day am amazed by the number of vendors we have available to support these cars..... many options that simply would not exsist were it not for the passion...
11-23-2010, 08:58 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
John, you nailed it. It's the same reason why I still buy CDs. I want the artists to keep making the music I like so I make sure they keep making money. The aftermarket is easily twice the size it was 10 years ago and the overall quality of the products is great. I'm happy that we have so many options for our cars at almost every price point. It's ridiculous that you can get the amount of horsepower out of these 20 year old engines for what are essentially bolt-ons.
11-24-2010, 04:26 PM
#27
Team Owner
The price is what the price is. They look nice and wish I had some. However, a value question; if running a stock IC and bigger turbo with 3" inlet, MAF street car what does it give you? Hp= ? Spool up? In general, I know all builds are different but is this a major restriction or? In other words what do I get for my $? FYI have the capabilities of building one of carbon fiber parts and have been considering wasting some time on one set for myself.
11-24-2010, 05:33 PM
#29
^+1. Its totally bling, the stock pipes flow way more air than you will ever need.
11-24-2010, 05:59 PM
#30
Geaux Tigers!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Your post sounds like a 951 flavored fortune cookie.
