To much boost
11-04-2010, 05:04 PM
#16
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I pulled the plug of the cycling valve, so the KLR will not work and the boost is 1:1 to the wastegate. And i still have too much boost.
I'm asking because with the CV unplugged, the WG should open roughly when the boost hits the spring rating, and 0.6 bar is not that much. I run a 0.8 bar Tial WG and only get about 10-12 psi of boost before the WG opens when I turn off my boost controller. SP vs. DP should not matter if the CV is off, UNLESS you actually have the CV connected to the reference port, not the boost control port, in which case boost pressure would actually help keep the WG from opening.
Importantly, note that these ports are in fact REVERSED for Tial WGs as compared to the factory WG design. For a Tial WG, the valve moves in the opposite direction as compared to the factory WG design – i.e., the exhaust pushes up on the plunger to compress the spring, not down – so the reference port and boost control port are likewise reversed. In your configuration, the CV should connect to the side port of the Tial WG, not the top port like a factory configuration, so that the boost pressure can help compress the spring and open the WG.
P.S. Nice build and write-up on your site. Do you have any more pics of the PLX digital gauge you installed on the tach? I like it.
11-04-2010, 05:24 PM
#17
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Of course you see overboost, the KLR is programmed for a super weak wastegate spring so it's duty cycle table is way off. You should install a 0.2 bar spring and go from there.
Why not use the wastegate in dual port mode?
The KLR is for the Knocksensor, Boostcontroll and Ignition delay. In the dualportmode i have nothing.
What are the details of the engine build?
Outside…:
Onearm wiper
Pefa front
Strosek spoiler
Strosek skirts
Org. 968TS Spoiler
white frontlights red rearlights
968 mirrows968 Türgriffe
Cleaned rearside
Golf 1 headlights with iron cross
suspension, brakes…:
M030
Big Reds
KW V3 suspension
All in uniball
RH 8,5 and 10 x 18″
shark ballbearing rear axle
shark guide arms......
engine…:
968 gearbox
Spec clutch
3″ lindsey with Borla
SFR 4 in 1 header stage 2
tial 46mm Wastegate
K&N
forge Blow Off Hybrid
Lindsey Fuel Rail and Dumper...
Much Chrom&Gold
MAF Bosch
SFR Oilcatchcan
SFR Oilcooler and Stage 2 intercooler
Lindsey Intake 2,7l
................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJNERKIbOM4
11-04-2010, 05:38 PM
#18
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That shouldn't be. Are you absolutely sure you have the WG hooked up correctly? Which port exactly on your WG is the CV routed to?
I'm asking because with the CV unplugged, the WG should open roughly when the boost hits the spring rating, and 0.6 bar is not that much. I run a 0.8 bar Tial WG and only get about 10-12 psi of boost before the WG opens when I turn off my boost controller. SP vs. DP should not matter if the CV is off, UNLESS you actually have the CV connected to the reference port, not the boost control port, in which case boost pressure would actually help keep the WG from opening.
Importantly, note that these ports are in fact REVERSED for Tial WGs as compared to the factory WG design.
P.S. Nice build and write-up on your site. Do you have any more pics of the PLX digital gauge you installed on the tach? I like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdWkI4ZhVIA
11-04-2010, 06:48 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
But you only loose the boost controll of the KLR if you go dual port and MBC/EBC. The other KLR functions will work.
11-04-2010, 07:15 PM
#21
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Very nice looking build and car! Any more pics of the cage? How much does the car weigh now with it being stripped out of interior? What's that turbo?
Any 100-200kmh times?
Any 100-200kmh times?
11-04-2010, 09:27 PM
#22
968 turbo RS chips
Hi, I am very interesting on these chips. Do you really use factory 968 Turbo RS chip??. Please tell if I can get these chips for my 3.0L turbo?? (i´m building now a 3.0 l engine for a Rallye project and I´m not sure what chips I have to use). I have a cup car and my experience with factory cup chips is very good (never failures).
Hi,
I really boosting up to 2,0bar. Wheelspin at the 4th gear. I installed the plx system and it's installed in the line of the KLR.
I used chips of a 968 TurboRS on 1,0bar with a 200kpa sensor in the KLR. Now i use a 250kpa Sensor and the first Setup is 1,15bar the next 1,3bar in the KLR. I have with all the chips the same problem, to much boost. The KLR works on a factory 951.
No Lindsey MAF. i'm using a Bosch MAF and elektr. of scivision here in germany.
Yes, i have. The Wastegate is opening at higher rpm/boost. But i think not enough?! Perhaps the spring is to hard for the pressure of the cycling valave?
3l Turbo, MAF, Forge hybrid blow-off, tial 46mm wastegate 0,6bar spring, sfr headers, lindsey intake+exhaust, 250kpa klrsensor.
See more at www.944er.com
I really boosting up to 2,0bar. Wheelspin at the 4th gear. I installed the plx system and it's installed in the line of the KLR.
I used chips of a 968 TurboRS on 1,0bar with a 200kpa sensor in the KLR. Now i use a 250kpa Sensor and the first Setup is 1,15bar the next 1,3bar in the KLR. I have with all the chips the same problem, to much boost. The KLR works on a factory 951.
No Lindsey MAF. i'm using a Bosch MAF and elektr. of scivision here in germany.
Yes, i have. The Wastegate is opening at higher rpm/boost. But i think not enough?! Perhaps the spring is to hard for the pressure of the cycling valave?
3l Turbo, MAF, Forge hybrid blow-off, tial 46mm wastegate 0,6bar spring, sfr headers, lindsey intake+exhaust, 250kpa klrsensor.
See more at www.944er.com
11-04-2010, 10:43 PM
#23
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The factory KLR has a 200KPA Sensor, it means the KLR can read boost up to 1,0bar. So the 951 can only make 1,0bar real boost with the securemode of the cycling valve and knocksensor. With the dualport wastegate and boostcontroller you haven't the sercurity, you give boost manual and nothing can controll it down if your engine have problems.
I have a 250KPA Sensor, now the KLR can handle the pressure up to 1,5bar+ real boost. You need a new chip for the KLR. You can see the KPA sensor in the pic i attached. Its the sensor with the pressure hose.
With a stock 2,5 Turbo you will have 310PS and 411Nm at 1,15bar. The KLR can read and controll the pressure and if your engine knocks, it will controll it down.
I have a 250KPA Sensor, now the KLR can handle the pressure up to 1,5bar+ real boost. You need a new chip for the KLR. You can see the KPA sensor in the pic i attached. Its the sensor with the pressure hose.
With a stock 2,5 Turbo you will have 310PS and 411Nm at 1,15bar. The KLR can read and controll the pressure and if your engine knocks, it will controll it down.
Others can chime in here, and I don't know if, maybe, North American 951s are different; but the boost that comes into the so-called sensor in the KLR just operates the stock boost gauge.
Overboost protection is controlled by the DME and can be altered by the DME chip. Knock protection is still preserved down to the spring pressure of the wastegate if you use the cycling valve, regardless if you change the "sensor" in the KLR or not.
11-04-2010, 11:04 PM
#25
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Others can chime in here, and I don't know if, maybe, North American 951s are different; but the boost that comes into the so-called sensor in the KLR just operates the stock boost gauge.
Overboost protection is controlled by the DME and can be altered by the DME chip. Knock protection is still preserved down to the spring pressure of the wastegate if you use the cycling valve, regardless if you change the "sensor" in the KLR or not.
Overboost protection is controlled by the DME and can be altered by the DME chip. Knock protection is still preserved down to the spring pressure of the wastegate if you use the cycling valve, regardless if you change the "sensor" in the KLR or not.
Overboost (overload really) is done by the DME. If triggered, the DME will completely shut off the injectors for a short time. However, the KLR, if it detects too much knock will attempt to lower boost pressure.
-Rogue
Holy crap! What octane are you using for that?
11-05-2010, 01:28 AM
#27
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The KLR uses its internal MAP sensor (200kpa) to both drive the stock boost gauge, and to operate the CV. By replacing the 200kpa sensor with a 250kpa, and reprogramming the KLR chip, the factory system can achieve higher boost pressures without resorting to a MBC/EBC.
-Rogue
-Rogue
I pretty much thought that the KLR chip is solely responsible for the duty cycle of the CV. I can't see the significance in changing to a higher kpa sensor (being just that ; a sensor), when you can just reprogram the KLR chip. Maybe the system needs a higher resolution that the kpa sensor can provide in order to change the duty cycle?
And to the OP concern, I certainly don't see why you'd have to change the sensor for knock protection when the stock KLR can allow for much higher boost and still have the knock protection. Some of us are doing this all the time (if we decide to keep the CV in the loop).
11-05-2010, 01:35 AM
#28
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200kpa = ~14.3psi of boost.
That is all the stock sensor can read. So the KLR, which uses this sensor to understand boost, is limited to the max of the sensor. By changing to a 250kpa sensor (~21.5psi), the KLR now has a new upper limit for understanding boost.
That is all the stock sensor can read. So the KLR, which uses this sensor to understand boost, is limited to the max of the sensor. By changing to a 250kpa sensor (~21.5psi), the KLR now has a new upper limit for understanding boost.
11-05-2010, 05:32 AM
#29
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This morning i checked the factory wastegate with a handpump. It opens at 0,35-0,4bar. So the spring in my tial (0.6bar) is to hard and it won't open enough at the higher boost. I will try a 0.3 or a 0,4bar spring in my Wastegate, i think it will work correctly after that.
Exactly thats the way it goes. With a 200kpa sensor the klr can't read correct over 1,0bar.
Yes, if its something fail with the engine the KLR will reduze the boost. MBC = no function. I think thats a good thing, why don't you use it?
A friend of mine drives a 968TS and he is programming chips. So he maked me some chips. But with other injectors.... you have to go on a dyno ...
I don't know, it's just my streetlegal version. I don' drive it on a track. 
200kpa = ~14.3psi of boost.
That is all the stock sensor can read. So the KLR, which uses this sensor to understand boost, is limited to the max of the sensor. By changing to a 250kpa sensor (~21.5psi), the KLR now has a new upper limit for understanding boost.
That is all the stock sensor can read. So the KLR, which uses this sensor to understand boost, is limited to the max of the sensor. By changing to a 250kpa sensor (~21.5psi), the KLR now has a new upper limit for understanding boost.
But you only loose the boost controll of the KLR if you go dual port and MBC/EBC. The other KLR functions will work.
Do you really use factory 968 Turbo RS chip??.
But with other injectors.... you have to go on a dyno ...
Any more pics of the cage?
How much does the car weigh
11-05-2010, 06:37 AM
#30
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