Olli Snellman

Same here in europe. You can easily have two 951's with price of one M3. Funny but back in the '80's 951 was much more expensive For example here in Finland what 951 cost you got two M3's.

944CS

I would have to disagree here. The only thing that makes the engines cool is the individual throttle bodies.

If Porsche introduced the 944S with individual throttles it would have kicked more ***. It's a better motor just without the cool induction system.

The E30M3 has the DTM history (and championship) that the 944S doesn't though...

944CS

It's funny how time changes everything.

This is actually a Dinan Turbo S14 (E30M3)....only 5 built by Dinan.

Olli Snellman

I just cannot find a single thing which makes 944 engine better than S14? I don't consider use of alusil that.

I wondered where i had seen similar setup earlier. Dinan made also similar E28 series M5 turbo setups using 951 parts.

944CS

That's cool I've never seen the Dinan turbo M5

But onto the S14 vs. M44/40

944 block is aluminum (S14 owners yearn for an Al block)
944 engine can go to 3.1 & beyond (S14 limited to 2.7 even this is a stretch)
944 comes stock as 2.5 with 10.9:1 and knock sensor (S14B23 is 2.3, 10.5:1 only Evo models were 2.5)
S14 engine known for being buzzy (no balance shafts)
S14 has fan driven by the engine (going to electric fan gains about 10hp)
Changing head gasket on S14 requires a lot more work due to head and cam box design

elargentino

You realize that DTM is only a TINY fraction of the history of that engine family.
I am sure you know that the Megatron F1 engines used this block.
That would be the 1500 HP (qualifying) turbo engine that did time for Gordon Murray and those amatures.

The E21 that David Hobbs drove only made 900 HP, because it was used for longer races and was only allowed to rev to a paltry 9,000 RPM.

There is a reason that the 2.5 16 valve 944 is not famous, it was not ABLE to be famous.

There are many lurkers on this forum who probably will not (as usual) comment here about their turbocharging "odysseys" with the 2.5 S engine, and their failures.

The 968 and S2 engines are a horse of a different color, better, but still not S14 worthy.

Also - the only S14 owners who yearn for an aluminum block, are the inexperienced ones, who look for low power (why turbo then??)
I personally yearn for an iron replacement for the 944 block, almost convinced a machinist friend to make one, but that time is passed.

eniac

I LOVE E30's. One of my dream cars would be an E30 M3iX but sadly it was never produced. I would have loved to see one of those tuned for group b way back when. What kills me is when I bought my 951 in 1999, I paid $8600 for it. At the time I saw E30 M3's going for close to the same amount. Granted I love the massive Porsche power just as much as teh awesome E30 handling however now I see 951s everywhere and thier value has decreased where the E30 M3 I see less and less and thier value has increased.

Currently own:
1991 325ix

Previously owned:
1988 325ix - Best car I have ever owned...and I've had MANY.
1991 325ix
1984 318
1985 318

944CS

From an Engineer's perspective, a cast iron block is easy hp

An Al block is ideal (friction, weight, heat transfer)

Yes the M10 and S14 are very similar but you are talking a destroked Turbocharged M10 with a different 4 valve head (M12/13)

Al block was an engineering feat back in the day - now it is the industry standard.

333pg333

All things being equal, bottom line is that the BMW motor is better for getting bigger hp. A minute handful of us have broken into the 500hp mark. For the BMW fraternity this is 'training wheel' region.

Our motors while being nice from an 'of the day' aspect, just weren't designed to cope with high hp. A lot of work has to go into them to make and sustain half decent power levels under track conditions. It's a shame really...

Olli Snellman

What i wanted to say here is i just love both 951 & E30. They were my dream cars back in the '80's. managed to buy several E30's new, no chance to by M3 or 951 both of them were so expensive here because the worlds third highest car taxation (we still have it). For example when we buy a Boxster you guys get two for the same price...
OK now i am an old fart, have both 951 & E30 (again) Just wish to have that M3 as well. These car are my timemachines back to my yomger years

333pg333

I agree Olli.

btw we paid over double for Porsches back when when our dollar was .50c of the US one. Now that they're the same...guess what we pay for a car...exactly the same. More than double the US.

eniac

I didn't feel old until I read your post. hahaha

When I bought my current E30 325ix I had a chance to buy a E46 323i. Yeah the E46 woulda been way nicer in the summer however every winter confirms my choice to stick with a 325ix and Nokian Hakkas for the ice.

Euro951

E30 M3's are nice but I still think the price for admission is high... the car was great in its day but for 20 large used I would buy something else which would roast an M3 on the track....