superloaf

so i'm getting some bilstein HD's for the rear of my car which is basically stock suspension except for the koni sports. i'm just wondering if anyone has any first hand knowledge of the differences between the two on a 951. basically i'm tired of replacing blown konis on all the cars i've ever owned. so i'm swearing them off forever or at least whenever there is a bilstein replacement.

which brings me to the front of the turbo: why no bilstein front other than the race shocks? and what exactly is the difference between a stock 951 and stock 944 front strut? i know the 951's usually have non rebuildable konis or similar but is there any major difference otherwise? in other words, could i use a NA 944 strut with a bilstein insert on my turbo?

still not sure i would want to do this until i see how stiff and functional the rears are. however, in my scirocco, i went to bilstein sports and love them. they are just as stiff and provide the same amount of dampening as konis but they are much smoother over small road imperfections where the konis seem to just go rigid under high speed dampening which results in jittery and harsh ride feeling, not to mention loss of grip. i hope the 944 HD's are similar although the HD tag makes me worry a bit.

just wish they made a full F&R Sport application but with bilstein, the HD vs. Sport seems to be car specific and not a reference to actual dampening.

more to come when i get the bilsteins installed.

gt37vgt

e shocks has all the valving listed next to the shocks and great prices used Golf 2 group A bilsteins on the front of my 944 i had some one clever make sure the valving would be ok regular golf 2 struts i think are the right ones .. they are shorter than a 944 shock so suitable for a lowered car my group a ones are a bit to short i had to get creative to make them work ..
and whats your translation of sport HD to firhawk and escort cup?
Linsey has good prices on billies and nice pictures

supes6

I have the bilstein HD's all around on my 86 951... I used a set of N/A strut housings with the bilstein inserts and modified the bolt holes to fit. The ride is not harsh at all. If anything I feel sometimes the fronts are too soft, but it might just be my stock springs or my worn out front swaybar bushing..

superloaf

where do you see the valving listed? i didn't see that. also, very interested in using golf II struts--do you have any links or further info on that? is it just the length that is of concern? do they bolt up to the spindles the same?

post some pics also if you can. and where did you source the group a parts & how much did they run?

thanks

gt37vgt

I'm just digging through emails now perhaps only the race shocks have the valving listed these are what i have but they are too short
http://www.eshocks.com/bil_vehR.asp?...tein&SubChar=Q
the only fitments issue is the the spindle clamp is much wider so you need to make 4 spacers each 4mm thick with 2 12mm holes
I'm pretty sure the good front sturt thats is the right length valving etc is a vw hd rally spec.

gt37vgt

yeh they are all listed here
the spring perch hieght could be an issue its worth getting threaded ones
standard lenth ones are spot on for a lowered 944 but the short ones are no good

gt37vgt

http://www.eshocks.com/bil_modR.asp?Manf=Bilstein

superloaf

how are the bolt holes different? hmmm, i tend to think that konis & bilsteins are about the same amount of dampening. people always say that bilsteins are softer but i've found that bilsteins just seem to handle the little imperfections much, much better and that makes them ride better.

and to be honest, i'd rather use a stiffer spring with bilsteins and gain control rather than a harsh koni with a softer spring and be skating around & getting bruised at the same time.

sorry, just harboring some intense resentment towards koni for all the wasted time, money, suspension tuning and banged up kidneys throughout the years...

supes6

The hole spacing on the N/A is shorter, so you have to elongate one of the holes. Also, the 951 spindle is thinner than the N/A, so you need to add a shim or washers between the spindle and the strut clamp.

jc in rb

I have been considering going the same route, but was wondering if anyone has done the bil.hd's with an adjustable ride hight kit. that would give a better range of spring choices. I was thinkin about 200 in/lb(dont have the money to do t-bars) anyone...anyone?????

jc in rb

anyone.....anyone........bueler ?

superloaf

so i had a great score over the weekend at the local pick a part during their 50% off sale. i got a fairly decent rear hatch (mine needs a reseal), 2 front bilstein shocks off a 914 (don't even have a 914 but that's my next project so i already have some shocks), a 3 spoke carrera steering wheel with near perfect leather, and the best part, 2 rear bilstein shocks off a 944! got them for around $10 and they are brand new! yee ha, just what i needed and even at 50% off. sometimes you get lucky.

so i'll be putting them in this weekend and stay tuned for a comparison with the present koni sports. rear hatch is on already but my old weatherstripping has left some open spots on the upper corners. so i'll probably try to reseal my old one and reuse it. the 914 bilsteins are resting comfortably after a nice cleaning. the 3 spoke wheel goes in my collection with 3 others. i put one in my scirocco and love it. might try one in the 951 too. why do i have 4? hey, they're $8; what would you do?

as for jc above--i want to go that same route. i've heard 200 is the match for stock t bars or you can go stiffer and deal with the understeer. i have some 26mm t bars i got for supercheap off ebay whcih i'm going to install one of these days and i was told to not go much over 250# with those. i doubt anyone has that set up with bilsteins in the turbo forum--maybe a NA guy has it though.

lemme know if you find any info on that. i would like to hear also.

superloaf

update: so i got my bilstein rear shocks installed and a couple of notes i thought were worth mentioning. first of all they raised the ride height a noticeable amount. enough that it looks a little odd now. i'm guessing at least half an inch, maybe a little more. but the important part is the handling. and with that it's a little good and a little bad. it does handle better. it's more controllable and feels like i can now correct or change lines in mid corner while before it seemed more about set the car and ride it out. it's subtle but a definite difference. also, the bilsteins ride much much better. admittedly they do feel softer but they don't skate over road imperfections like the konis did. also, on sections of road where the konis would fight for traction, the bilsteins just grab and go. you still feel the bumps but just not harsh and the resulting traction is much better. a particular uphill turn over some tree roots just under the road surface is what really showed a difference.
also, there is much more lean now. this could be a factor of the raised rear ride height as well as a softer shock. i wish bilstein made a sport option for the 944. it's strange that they don't. i guess i could get these revalved for $65 each and still be ahead of the game. might do that at a later date.
but before i make my final judgment, i am in the process of lowering the adjustment on the rear ride height. (damn, those bolts are tight!!!) hopefully i can get it back to were it was with the konis. i would like to get rid of some of the roll. i can't help thinking it's a little too soft now but then again it's so much easier to drive. and more fun. not sure if it's any faster but on any kind of bumpy road, i'm sure it is.

anyone know for sure what the torsion bar size on an 86 is? i've seen different sizes listed in porsche literature so not sure. i want to say the 86's had 24mm and the M030 had 25.5? or maybe the S had the 25.5? anyways, i have a set if 26mm bars and just wondering how much of a difference they would make? i know a bigger size would be preferred but the 26mm are in hand so hopefully they are worth the effort of the install. thanks--