clutch or transmission failure?
02-22-2010, 05:30 AM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Mark,
When I drove your car I did notice that you had to have the clutch pedal right to the floor to change gears, whereas in mine I can change with clutch only 2/3 in. So if something has worn further, you are probably just beyond some limit and can't quite disengage the clutch. If that is the case, it is either your slave cylinder or your friction plate is worn out. Do you know when the clutch was last changed? What is the clutch wear measured through the inspection hole?
When I drove your car I did notice that you had to have the clutch pedal right to the floor to change gears, whereas in mine I can change with clutch only 2/3 in. So if something has worn further, you are probably just beyond some limit and can't quite disengage the clutch. If that is the case, it is either your slave cylinder or your friction plate is worn out. Do you know when the clutch was last changed? What is the clutch wear measured through the inspection hole?
02-22-2010, 06:35 AM
#17
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Mark,
When I drove your car I did notice that you had to have the clutch pedal right to the floor to change gears, whereas in mine I can change with clutch only 2/3 in. So if something has worn further, you are probably just beyond some limit and can't quite disengage the clutch. If that is the case, it is either your slave cylinder or your friction plate is worn out. Do you know when the clutch was last changed? What is the clutch wear measured through the inspection hole?
When I drove your car I did notice that you had to have the clutch pedal right to the floor to change gears, whereas in mine I can change with clutch only 2/3 in. So if something has worn further, you are probably just beyond some limit and can't quite disengage the clutch. If that is the case, it is either your slave cylinder or your friction plate is worn out. Do you know when the clutch was last changed? What is the clutch wear measured through the inspection hole?
02-22-2010, 02:11 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
When this happened to my S2 I had the same doubts about the transmission but sure enough, it was the clutch. The transmission in these cars is really strong.
Hang in there. It gets better, really!
Hang in there. It gets better, really!
02-22-2010, 08:30 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Ditto.
The reason you can't change gear on the move is that the rubber fragments from the failing rubber hub get between the clutch disc and the flywheel, creating enough drag to baulk the synchros and prevent gear changes.
This was explained to me by a Porsche tech when mine failed in the same way.
He also said that the backup steel drive dogs make it sound like your trans is broken because the steel fingers transmit all the trans noise up the torque tube. He said the steel drive dogs are strong enough to drive around on for up to 12 months as long as you're gentle.
You shouldn't wait this long though!
Hope this helps,
Mike
The reason you can't change gear on the move is that the rubber fragments from the failing rubber hub get between the clutch disc and the flywheel, creating enough drag to baulk the synchros and prevent gear changes.
This was explained to me by a Porsche tech when mine failed in the same way.
He also said that the backup steel drive dogs make it sound like your trans is broken because the steel fingers transmit all the trans noise up the torque tube. He said the steel drive dogs are strong enough to drive around on for up to 12 months as long as you're gentle.
You shouldn't wait this long though!
Hope this helps,
Mike
02-22-2010, 09:04 PM
#20
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Ditto.
The reason you can't change gear on the move is that the rubber fragments from the failing rubber hub get between the clutch disc and the flywheel, creating enough drag to baulk the synchros and prevent gear changes.
This was explained to me by a Porsche tech when mine failed in the same way.
He also said that the backup steel drive dogs make it sound like your trans is broken because the steel fingers transmit all the trans noise up the torque tube. He said the steel drive dogs are strong enough to drive around on for up to 12 months as long as you're gentle.
You shouldn't wait this long though!
Hope this helps,
Mike
The reason you can't change gear on the move is that the rubber fragments from the failing rubber hub get between the clutch disc and the flywheel, creating enough drag to baulk the synchros and prevent gear changes.
This was explained to me by a Porsche tech when mine failed in the same way.
He also said that the backup steel drive dogs make it sound like your trans is broken because the steel fingers transmit all the trans noise up the torque tube. He said the steel drive dogs are strong enough to drive around on for up to 12 months as long as you're gentle.
You shouldn't wait this long though!
Hope this helps,
Mike
So to confirm: Your S2 had the infamous rubber centered clutch? How many years/kms before it let go?
And what clutch kit did you replace with? I'm having a bit of a problem getting my head around the difference between the clutch parts for the various models...
02-22-2010, 09:33 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
My rubber-centred clutch disc sheared in July 2003, 12 years old and 90,000km.
I considered a spring-centred disc but was wary of judder with the 3.0 motor. I got a rubber-centred kit from Ian at 944online and fitted it myself that August.
I'm light on clutches so I expect the rubber centre to disintegrate again before the friction material wears out.
My guesstimate is 10-12 years life so I've got a bit of breathing space before I have to decide.
Gut feel is that a spring-centre clutch is fine as long as your motor mounts are up to scratch.
Cheers,
Mike
I considered a spring-centred disc but was wary of judder with the 3.0 motor. I got a rubber-centred kit from Ian at 944online and fitted it myself that August.
I'm light on clutches so I expect the rubber centre to disintegrate again before the friction material wears out.
My guesstimate is 10-12 years life so I've got a bit of breathing space before I have to decide.
Gut feel is that a spring-centre clutch is fine as long as your motor mounts are up to scratch.
Cheers,
Mike
Last edited by mikey_audiogeek; 02-23-2010 at 12:59 AM.
02-22-2010, 09:36 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Oh yeah - forgot to mention: If the rubber centre is starting to disintegrate then there will be rubber particles evident when you remove the bellhousing inspection port bung. You may have been too busy looking elsewhere to notice, but this would confirm the diagnosis.
Cheers,
Mike
Cheers,
Mike
02-22-2010, 09:58 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thanks Mike -- that all makes sense.
So to confirm: Your S2 had the infamous rubber centered clutch? How many years/kms before it let go?
And what clutch kit did you replace with? I'm having a bit of a problem getting my head around the difference between the clutch parts for the various models...
So to confirm: Your S2 had the infamous rubber centered clutch? How many years/kms before it let go?
And what clutch kit did you replace with? I'm having a bit of a problem getting my head around the difference between the clutch parts for the various models...
If you have the original in there 20+ yrs w/ 177k km, its lasted longer than can be expected...
02-23-2010, 01:07 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Word.
I was chasing motorbikes when mine went, same deal, shifting from 4th to 3rd. Here's where it happened:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...03439&t=h&z=18
Whoops guess I shouldn't have given away one of the best driving roads around. Bimbling north to Wairoa for a pie is a good way to spend a day off.
I was chasing motorbikes when mine went, same deal, shifting from 4th to 3rd. Here's where it happened:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...03439&t=h&z=18
Whoops guess I shouldn't have given away one of the best driving roads around. Bimbling north to Wairoa for a pie is a good way to spend a day off.
02-23-2010, 03:54 AM
#25
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Oh yeah - forgot to mention: If the rubber centre is starting to disintegrate then there will be rubber particles evident when you remove the bellhousing inspection port bung. You may have been too busy looking elsewhere to notice, but this would confirm the diagnosis.
Cheers,
Mike
Cheers,
Mike
Now I just need a plan to fix it...
02-24-2010, 09:20 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
I had another look in the port, but didn't see any rubber particles. Nevertheless, I'm willing to call it the clutch on the strength of everyone's input, particularly Mike's. Thanks all. (BTW, I did another test drive after bleeding the clutch, and basically unchanged.)
Now I just need a plan to fix it...
Now I just need a plan to fix it...
However, when the replacement clutch went, the hard-shifting symptoms were practically the same as you describe. With the bad disc out I noticed the lining had broken off here and there resulting in an inoperative clutch.
Whatever you do, make sure you get a quality clutch kit!
02-28-2010, 09:24 AM
#27
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Oh yeah - forgot to mention: If the rubber centre is starting to disintegrate then there will be rubber particles evident when you remove the bellhousing inspection port bung. You may have been too busy looking elsewhere to notice, but this would confirm the diagnosis.
Cheers,
Mike
Cheers,
Mike
Found some tell-tale bits of rubber in the inspection hole today while I was starting on the clutch job, confirming your diagnosis -- just thought I'd let you know. Thanks again!
2001, 944, audi, boxster, broken, clutch, difference, failing, floor, hole, inspection, measurement, symptoms, transmission, turbo
