944 Turbo S or '05 Lotus Elise
01-23-2010, 04:05 PM
#16
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I am over 6 feet tall and I felt like I was crawling out of the car. Corners like a cat on steroids.
Practicality
If there was a sliding scale of practicality with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best, the Elise would be somewhere around -2 with the Lamborghini Diablo SV and the TukTuk motor tricycle. There is a boot behind the engine, but it tends to cook whatever is stored there. Squashy bags are OK, but space everywhere else is at a premium. And don't expect to arrive and be able to emerge gracefully - unless you're 5ft tall, the Elise will strip your ego bare.
Comfort
Better than before, in that it now won't actually cripple and deafen you in the first 30 miles. Just getting into the thing is a hilarious business, and once inside the ergonomics are terrible - the Elise is very focussed, so heaters and radios are added in later. Much easier entry and egress with the roof off, but it's a pain to replace quickly if there's a snap rain shower.
6 out of 20
Handling
The Elise makes even a trip to the shops an adventure, with steering so feelsome it's like running the palm of your hand down the tarmac itself. You can feel road cambers that you won't have a clue about from the helm of any sports saloon, and when the car starts to reach the limits of its considerable grip, your bum will telegraph the situation to you well in advance.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/lotus/elise
Practicality
If there was a sliding scale of practicality with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best, the Elise would be somewhere around -2 with the Lamborghini Diablo SV and the TukTuk motor tricycle. There is a boot behind the engine, but it tends to cook whatever is stored there. Squashy bags are OK, but space everywhere else is at a premium. And don't expect to arrive and be able to emerge gracefully - unless you're 5ft tall, the Elise will strip your ego bare.
Comfort
Better than before, in that it now won't actually cripple and deafen you in the first 30 miles. Just getting into the thing is a hilarious business, and once inside the ergonomics are terrible - the Elise is very focussed, so heaters and radios are added in later. Much easier entry and egress with the roof off, but it's a pain to replace quickly if there's a snap rain shower.
6 out of 20
Handling
The Elise makes even a trip to the shops an adventure, with steering so feelsome it's like running the palm of your hand down the tarmac itself. You can feel road cambers that you won't have a clue about from the helm of any sports saloon, and when the car starts to reach the limits of its considerable grip, your bum will telegraph the situation to you well in advance.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/lotus/elise
01-23-2010, 04:18 PM
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That's the sort of feedback you want right there. ^^^ Good stuff Mark.
I think most of us as much as we love the 951 are all thinking, go for the Lotus. There is no such thing as 'Just a chip and some konis' no matter how much you believe that. If you are prepared to spend $27k on the Lotus, lets round that up to $30 because there's always something to spend. Now think about what sort of 951 you could put together for that sort of cash. So if you don't want to spend that much. Get a good one for say $10k. Spend another $10k and you'll have something special and still reliable....or better still. Get the Lotus, lol.
I think most of us as much as we love the 951 are all thinking, go for the Lotus. There is no such thing as 'Just a chip and some konis' no matter how much you believe that. If you are prepared to spend $27k on the Lotus, lets round that up to $30 because there's always something to spend. Now think about what sort of 951 you could put together for that sort of cash. So if you don't want to spend that much. Get a good one for say $10k. Spend another $10k and you'll have something special and still reliable....or better still. Get the Lotus, lol.
Seriously though there is only one car that fits his criteria and that’s the legendary Honda NSX full-stop ... if you can live with the vague drive-by-wire steering and understeering issues (only 16x 215 front tyres) which you can as you won’t be thraping it around tracks, only a weekend car this is what he needs as it’s a true reliable Supercar good for 250k miles if maintained well. Room for the luggage, can be used every day, will eat miles and you’ll feel like you’ve had just a trip around the block when you get to the other end and styling to die for. Plus I believe these have a big following also in the US
Last edited by future; 01-23-2010 at 05:57 PM.
01-23-2010, 05:18 PM
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Thanks Patrick and just to confuse him more - I went from owning many TVR's onto pretty much owning all modern Lotus's BUT now it's only P-cars for me
Seriously though there is only one car that fits his criteria and that’s the legendary Honda NSX full-stop ... if you can live with the vague drive-by-wire steering and understeering issues (only 16x 215 front tyres) which you can as you won’t be thraping it around tracks, only a weekend car this is what he needs as it’s a true reliable Supercar good for 250k miles if maintained well. Room for the luggage, can be used every day, will eat miles and you’ll feel like you’ve had just a trip around the block when you get to the other end and styling to die for. Plus I believe these have a big following also in the US
I could look at one all day long
Seriously though there is only one car that fits his criteria and that’s the legendary Honda NSX full-stop ... if you can live with the vague drive-by-wire steering and understeering issues (only 16x 215 front tyres) which you can as you won’t be thraping it around tracks, only a weekend car this is what he needs as it’s a true reliable Supercar good for 250k miles if maintained well. Room for the luggage, can be used every day, will eat miles and you’ll feel like you’ve had just a trip around the block when you get to the other end and styling to die for. Plus I believe these have a big following also in the US
I could look at one all day long
Anyways, it sounds to me like the guy just wants something he can buy and forget besides maintenance. Don't think he's really into modding, and believe it or not some people can do this. I had a good friend who bought an r32 after owning a heavily modded gti and honest to god never bought a single performance part for it.
The nsx does sound like a good idea for sure, but swapping an engine into an s1 (hard to find reasonably in america) might be over the top for his goals.
I would recommend the elise in the end simply because it sounds like you can afford it, plus very few cars give the raw experience a lotus does. You already said it was a toy car, so room and comfort really shouldn't matter much.
01-23-2010, 06:49 PM
#19
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I think if the Lotus wasn't mostly for the track then perhaps it sounds like the novelty would wear off pretty quickly in terms of daily driving. NSX could be a good idea, but I'd want to use it at the track for sure.
01-23-2010, 06:51 PM
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Thanks everyone for their insights. You've given me a lot to think about. Both cars have their strong points and I do realize they are totally different cars. Its just a question of what is right for me now. I like to experience a lot of different cars. I might just buy the Turbo S, keep it for two or three years, sell it and then get a Lotus. Who knows.
Scott
Scott
01-23-2010, 07:03 PM
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It's your money Scott and there are alot of people here who will be all to pleased to help you spend it including me
But to be honest you will love both cars and if it's just a weekend toy your after and you don't mind getting dirty under the hood every now and a gain then a well sorted Turbo S sure is a fine choice and I dought you will loose as much in depreciation as the Lotus (but I do not know the US market for these cars ... In the UK they are 10 a penny, lucky us) - good luck with your search all the same and we hope to see you posting pictures soon
I'd still go for an NSX though with all that Ayrton Senna development history
But to be honest you will love both cars and if it's just a weekend toy your after and you don't mind getting dirty under the hood every now and a gain then a well sorted Turbo S sure is a fine choice and I dought you will loose as much in depreciation as the Lotus (but I do not know the US market for these cars ... In the UK they are 10 a penny, lucky us) - good luck with your search all the same and we hope to see you posting pictures soon
I'd still go for an NSX though with all that Ayrton Senna development history
01-23-2010, 07:23 PM
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It's your money Scott and there are alot of people here who will be all to pleased to help you spend it including me
But to be honest you will love both cars and if it's just a weekend toy your after and you don't mind getting dirty under the hood every now and a gain then a well sorted Turbo S sure is a fine choice and I dought you will loose as much in depreciation as the Lotus (but I do not know the US market for these cars ... In the UK they are 10 a penny, lucky us) - good luck with your search all the same and we hope to see you posting pictures soon
I'd still go for an NSX though with all that Ayrton Senna development history
But to be honest you will love both cars and if it's just a weekend toy your after and you don't mind getting dirty under the hood every now and a gain then a well sorted Turbo S sure is a fine choice and I dought you will loose as much in depreciation as the Lotus (but I do not know the US market for these cars ... In the UK they are 10 a penny, lucky us) - good luck with your search all the same and we hope to see you posting pictures soon
I'd still go for an NSX though with all that Ayrton Senna development history
The NSX is an interesting car. Maybe after the 951 and Elise!Scott
01-27-2010, 10:57 AM
#23
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The Elise is a 100% toy. Light, nimble, and fun. However they are not long distance cars, they are not daily drivers.
I have an 88 Turbo S that I have owned for 13 years. Great car. One day I can drive it like a Grand Touring car, the next day a back road twisties car, the next day as daily driver to work, and then as mini truck doing coscto runs, carrying my 4 drawer tool box, taking my 3 year old to school and picking up shelves at home depot. Heck I once got an IKEA bookcase in the car.
So the 944 Turbo is not as raw as Lotus, but is much more practical. Plus over the 13 years I have owned it I have lost very little value.
I have an 88 Turbo S that I have owned for 13 years. Great car. One day I can drive it like a Grand Touring car, the next day a back road twisties car, the next day as daily driver to work, and then as mini truck doing coscto runs, carrying my 4 drawer tool box, taking my 3 year old to school and picking up shelves at home depot. Heck I once got an IKEA bookcase in the car.
So the 944 Turbo is not as raw as Lotus, but is much more practical. Plus over the 13 years I have owned it I have lost very little value.
01-27-2010, 11:07 AM
#24
Why do you think a Turbo S will not depreciate? Heck, if bought wrong, and your clutch fails, or steering rack or a number of things, you will be out of pocket big $$ (especially for a shop to fix). I don't see Elise prices/values dropping much (around me anyway) and if you can find a nice elise for mid 20's then you lucked out. Most around me are still $30K.
2 seat, 2000 lb, 180+n/a hp toy or 2800lb 2+2, 20year old turbo... I think you have some test driving to do!
2 seat, 2000 lb, 180+n/a hp toy or 2800lb 2+2, 20year old turbo... I think you have some test driving to do!
01-27-2010, 12:54 PM
#25
My .02... the Lotus is pretty awesome. My buddy has an 06' Exige and put a supercharger on it recently. Wow.. That car is insane. It was insane before the SC, even. It handled like nothing I've ever experienced, and I learned to drive stick in a Ferrari and have owned numerous high performance cars, so I'm not talking with a complete lack of experience :-). Don't get me wrong, I love my 951, but if you're getting something for weekend fun, it's the Lotus. He actually drives his to work sometimes (that's in CA traffic, too). Practical? no, not really. We sit very close together in that thing and we're both not big people, at all. Comfortable? I think it is, not creature comfort wise, but driving around sports car comfortable, yes. But let's face it, if you're a sports car guy and you want a weekend toy, why the hell would you want comfortable on the list of requirements, right?
Also, He bought it in the midwest and drove it straight back, with a friend, and they enjoyed the whole trip, no comfort issues at all.
If you're looking in the summer, see if you can get an Exige instead of the Elise...prices fell pretty nice and have been leveled off now for a while.
Good luck! I hope that helped some.
Stephen
Also, He bought it in the midwest and drove it straight back, with a friend, and they enjoyed the whole trip, no comfort issues at all.
If you're looking in the summer, see if you can get an Exige instead of the Elise...prices fell pretty nice and have been leveled off now for a while.
Good luck! I hope that helped some.
Stephen
01-27-2010, 03:31 PM
#26
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These days there is no way a 944 Turbo S will depreciate more than 8-9k. It is already nearly worthless. Some "minor" body work alone will cost 10 in a Lotus.
Still they are different cars. Buy a 944 Turbo S in good shape and sell it in a few years in good shape and you will come close to even money. (heck if the economy picks up maybe for more). Buy a good lotus and it will be worth less in 4 years even if you neve drove it.
The 944 Turbo is on flat part of the deperciation curve. The Lotus is still falling. Then again that is what you get with an nearly 20 year newer car.
Still they are different cars. Buy a 944 Turbo S in good shape and sell it in a few years in good shape and you will come close to even money. (heck if the economy picks up maybe for more). Buy a good lotus and it will be worth less in 4 years even if you neve drove it.
The 944 Turbo is on flat part of the deperciation curve. The Lotus is still falling. Then again that is what you get with an nearly 20 year newer car.
01-27-2010, 04:12 PM
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I think it is a matter of what you want out of the car. Most Porsches are a wonderful balance of benchmark streetcar handling with daily civility and comfort. The 951s are pretty loaded with power windows, mirrors, seats, sunroof, and locks, climate control and full interior.
Miles are logged by me far, far more on the street than the track. So, the 'street' component ranks high in my opinion. I love that that I can jump in my 951 and roll 300 straight miles and not break a sweat. Likewise, my wife is completely happy to be there with me.
On the street, I do not want to drive a steel or aluminum tub. It seems silly to me to have to put up with clanging, banging, and excessive road noise. I understand it in racing, it has a purpose. However, when I see a fully gutted car, even race prepped, on the street I just wonder why? I am for raw car driving experiences, but there is only so much 'race' when legal speeds are topping 65-70 mph and 55 mph on country roads.
So, given that, I say 944 Turbo S.
Miles are logged by me far, far more on the street than the track. So, the 'street' component ranks high in my opinion. I love that that I can jump in my 951 and roll 300 straight miles and not break a sweat. Likewise, my wife is completely happy to be there with me.
On the street, I do not want to drive a steel or aluminum tub. It seems silly to me to have to put up with clanging, banging, and excessive road noise. I understand it in racing, it has a purpose. However, when I see a fully gutted car, even race prepped, on the street I just wonder why? I am for raw car driving experiences, but there is only so much 'race' when legal speeds are topping 65-70 mph and 55 mph on country roads.
So, given that, I say 944 Turbo S.
05-22-2010, 10:31 PM
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UPDATE - I bought the Turbo S !!!!! It's an '88 with 70,000 miles, white with cashmere interior.
I can't believe how much more refined this car is (and modern) compared to my old '87 Carrera - and it's fast!
I think this car really delivers on the overall package of styling, comfort, power and handling. I'm glad I got it and think I will enjoy it for several years to come.
Now I'm just enjoying the fun of replacing all of the 20+ year old stuff that should be replaced because of age.
Scott
I can't believe how much more refined this car is (and modern) compared to my old '87 Carrera - and it's fast!
I think this car really delivers on the overall package of styling, comfort, power and handling. I'm glad I got it and think I will enjoy it for several years to come.
Now I'm just enjoying the fun of replacing all of the 20+ year old stuff that should be replaced because of age.
Scott
