BusterBluth82

Apologies if this is the wrong forum to post in.

I was hoping you all could tell me what kind of negotiating room I might have on this car. The seller's notes are below:

This second-owner, adult-driven, low mileage car is a rare example of one of the classic sports cars of the 1980s. Even brand new, the 944 Turbo was difficult to find with the Touring Package, giving you cruise control and power seating. The mileage is absolutely correct and has never been tampered with. As such, the car has been garage kept and Porsche maintained and is in flawless condition. The perfect balance of this car has been complemented by a Porsche tuned wastegate, giving a normally 1.25 bar boost level a generous increase to 2.5 bar, well within the capacity of the engine and turbo set up. This gives an already great performance car an extra punch (nearly 290bhp!) that will surprise even modern sports cars. The 911 wheels you see here were a factory upgrade, and were the originals with this car, not a cannibalized set from another. This car also comes with a custom-fitted cover specifically for the 944, as well as a set of brand-new embroidered floormats.

Additional notes: The car is at a dealer about 60 miles from Chicago. Colors: Black/Black. Dealer is asking $18,995. Condition looks great inside and out.

From my research, this price seems to be pretty high even given the low mileage.

One further question: Are there any ill effects from the tuned wastegate aside from lower MPG? I appreciate your input and time.

KuHL 951

That's about $9-10K too high for an 86 IMO. There are so many errors in the description I don't know where to start but there is no touring package. All 944T's came with cruise and power driver seat. Porsche tuned WG, 2.5 bar, 911 wheels? WTF is he talking about?

carlege

Power seats and cruise control were standards. 290bhp with 18 psi?.... what else has been done to the car?

They are blowing smoke up your *** for 18k

BusterBluth82

Thanks for the responses. He is talking about the factory option Fuchs when he says the "911 wheels". I have no idea if they are actually the orignial wheels as I have not seen the window sticker/option codes. I do like the look though, especially on black/black.

My guess on the HP estimate is that he is just full of **** and hasn't dyno'd it. I would definitely get a PPI, but I do not know what else has been done to the car as I haven't spoken with the seller yet.

It seems obvious that this car is not worth the $19K they are asking, but I have rarely seen one with as few miles on it. I think that the dealer may actually have NO idea what this car is worth because when I look at the rest of their inventory, the cars seem to be priced much closer to their actual market value. They are a run of the mill new/used car dealership...Chrysler cars.

MAGK944

IMO the problem with these low mileage cars is that you cannot really guarantee the low miles. The mileage is easily stopped or turned back on these cars. A well looked after and garage stored 80k car will look as good as a 40k car, and a stock 80k+ car is worth iro $6k to $8k in today's market.

Whatever the mileage it will still suffer some of the same issues as higher mileage cars. 944's have a lot of components that wear with age and not mileage. Even on a 40k car you will find age problems with vacuum lines, seals, bearings, belts, gaskets, wiring, etc.

The other problem with spending $19k on this car is that if you do use it as a daily driver, in four years time it will be an 80k car worth about $7k. That means the car has depreciated by $3k a year, and I don't find that level of loss acceptable for a 23 year old car.

BusterBluth82

Thanks for the opinion. I have no intention of spending anywhere near 19K on this car. If I could negotiate to $3.5K + my 2004 Acura RSX Type S ($9K or so in trade in) I would consider doing it as $12.5K seems to be a much more accurate price for this car. No idea if the dealer would go for that, but they damn well are not going to get 19K.

As far as putting mileage on it. I live in Chicago with a one car garage, so it would be my primary car, however I only drive about twice a week so the miles stay down.

I AM getting a sense from these forums using a 951 as a primary car may not be a great idea due to reliability issues. I am more concerned about the down time than the cost.

As far as the mileage issue, I know what you mean. I have taken apart the speedo on my Dad's 84 carrera to fix a broken gear in the odometer (from pressing the trip reset while moving). Unbelievable how easy it would have been to adjust the mileage.

User 52121

IMO that's pretty insane on the pricing. Just as just about everyone else here has said - it's not so much mileage as it is age that causes the majority of the problems with these cars now. A buddy of mine has an '86 with only ~60k on it and he's already had some issues (failed reference sensors and a leaking rear main seal.) His car has been well cared for as well with a pretty well documented service history, with most of the work done by either Fischer Motorsports or Midwest Eurosport.

I think the general thought process you'll find around the boards here is that it's generally preferred to buy a higher mileage car that's been obviously driven and maintained (and driven enough to shake out all the usual problems) than it is to buy a low mileage car that HASN'T been driven (and thusly hasn't yet had the chance for all the usual items to fail and be replaced in the past already.) These cars really don't like to just sit for extended periods of time.

Personally I'd leave a 40k mile car to a collector who won't drive it so much as keep it clean and enter it in concours events. Especially for that kind of money. For damn near $20k I'd go looking for a Boxster.

PS - where are you in Chicago? I'm out in the far NW suburbs.

The cork board @ Midwest Eurosport in Bensenville usually has a good collection of customer cars for sale. It's how I found my car.

User 52121

And what dealer is it? (Note I'm not planning to buy it out from under you.... I already have a money pit of a 951...)

Also... do they have service records for the car? I recall a Chevy dealer out in the west suburbs had a really clean '86 for sale on their lot over the summer. It was in beautiful shape with right around 80k but they had NO service history on it. I think they were asking $10k. IMO any car without service history is worth a lot less than you'd think... because you pretty much have to assume the worst. Plan on at least doing a timing belt, rollers, water pump right away.

BusterBluth82

Sorry for being vague....I doubt I will buy it, but the listing for the car is below, hopefully I am not violating any of the website rules by posting it. It doesn't mention the service records, and the guy from the dealership hasn't called me back...after about 5 hours.

I am thinking maybe I should look for an S2 to learn about the 944s and perhaps get a 951 when I have room to keep 2 cars. Anyone have experience with both? Can the S2 be nearly as fun?

I'm not really a fan of the boxter...or convertibles in general, so I have been looking at 911 3.2s and 944s. I'd prefer to spend under 13K or so knowing that a lot more will go into maintenance. That is really on the low end for 3.2 carreras, but defintely seems like it could get me a nice 944/951.

I live in chicago (lincoln square neighborhood). German neighborhood = German car imo

http://centercars.com/Preowned-Inven...oryId=27859833

sebastian944

hm. that is low miles.. i say 15k is a good deal... just my 2 cents

odurandina

an absolutely stunning, '94 Guards Red 968 with only 55,000 miles sold recently for $7,800. Car was garage kept all records etc... There are tons of 968s out there selling for half of what they cost 2 and a half years ago, when I helped my business partner purchase one. Go to cars.com, autotrader.com and see for yourself... really incredible price drops during this recession. The buying public forgot all about the transaxle 968s. Your gain.

BusterBluth82

Thanks for the tip on the 968. However, it looks like most of the 968's with that sort of mileage go for about double that price. Sounds like your friend got a great deal.

RolexNJ

Waaaaay over priced for that year-this economic climate, let alone as others said, erroneous information. Buyer beware....

Cole

Keep in mind that most the people on forums are there to talk about their problems or modifications.....that caused their problems.

I know several people that daily drive 951s with little issue. There is a reason most of these cars have 150, 200, 250K miles on them. As much as the talk on forums contradicts this, those car ran for all thost miles.

samluke

I agree with Cole.

951's were pushing 100HP per litre in TurboS form which was very healthy in the 80's and not too shabby even today. A 997 twin turbo 20 years later is only 115hp/litre. Then we tweak them and complain about reliability. Unmollested they are great, reliable cars. If your looking for a best value, reliable daily driver then in my opinion its the 968.