m73m95

.... 3.0L turbo engine?

There aren't to many threads on building a 3.0L turbo engine (That search and I can find anyway).

I know the basics of whats involved, but what would the aprox. total cost be to make one that would produce 400rwhp? I've seen in threads that a 3.0 would make that kind of HP and be reliable enough to drive daily. Start off by stating if that is true or not?

Would it be better to buy an S2 or 968 engine and sell the head for the 2.7 8v head, or modify the S2 manifold to fit a 2.5 951 manifold, OR stroking a 2.7 block? How about ceramic coating the exhaust ports and sodium valves? Would they be needed to make that kind of power on a daily basis?

Also thinking a complete stand alone system. They're not that expensive anymore, and are just as easy to install, since a complete ECM swap would be needed anyway.

Price for used parts where I can get away with them (be cheaper to dish stock pistons, than buy new... right?) Used low mileage turbo, exhaust misc parts... Not that I want to cheap this out (because I know it won't be cheap), but not everything needs to be brand new.

Thank you, and let the flaming..... errrr pricing begin!

Andy1212

I would guess at least 15 grand. But it really depends what you want to do.

Olli Snellman

Starting from 15-20K$, if you do it properly.

2.7 block is a S2 block. 2.7L engine is just 104mm bore block with 2.5L crank and 8V head.Would be easier to find S2 or 968 engine to start with.

With 2.7l head there would not be any coatings. I would go Chevy valves, plenty of choice available for a good price.Two of my friends (Arto & Pete) went that route with good results with their 3.0L build up's. That's what i am going to do as well. I bought some time ago 4 brand new 2.7L heads

m73m95

2 answers quite far apart....

Can you explain (I'd like some more detailed answers please)?

Is 400hp a reasonable amount of power to use in a DD car?

Olli Snellman

More power, more expensive it gets. What do you mean about more detailed answers? It all depends what parts you are using and how much you can do it by yourself. My basic setup contains S2 block 500€, S2 crank got it free, rods 800€, 2,7L head 700€, pistons 850€ etc. so base engine parts are not that expensive, but all the additional parts cost quite a bit and sometimes you are not able to locate basic parts cheap.Hp figures from 300-350 are quite chap to build above that, it would be more expensive. Do you really need 400hp for a daily driver is another question.

m73m95

I asked quite a few questions in my post.

To answer yours...

I will be doing everything except the machining, myself. I would like YOU (posters) to suggest what parts would be needed, and best to buy new or used)

and Why would you ask that?? OF COURSE I NEED 400hp in my DD

(I'm having another philosophical moment about my car. I am planning on a swap of some kind. I want 400rwhp.... end of story. I'm now wavering (again) on the LSx. At first I didn't care that my wouldn't be "all porsche", but these cars are getting more and more rare. Even though it wouldn't be the "stock" engine, at least it would be from the same make, and family........ but I know at some point in this thread, Sid (Blown944) will slap me and say "Quit your bitchin, and just put in the Goddamn LSx like you've been planning"... lol)

Also, I thought a 2.5 could do 300-320hp and be reliable enough for a DD, and a 3.0 could do 400hp and have the same reliability? (estimating from the 3.0L registry sticky above, at 1.0bar, a 3.0L should put up close to 400hp...)

Olli Snellman

For that you would get a lot of answers. Most builders have their own opinion how to do that. New or used part, hmm, get the best possible part you can get.

I suppose you have not studied this 3.0L build up that close, if you ask what parts you would need. I suppose it's quite obvious what parts are needed to accomplish this kind of set up. I listed already the base stuff earlier.

-block
-crank
-rods
-pistons
-head

after that, it's up to you what additional parts are needed to detail your 3.0L build up.

If only it would be that simple. Just additional 0.5L would not do that. It depends quite a lot what parts were used during the build up process.

MPD47

My 2.5 was reliable at over 400bhp.

If you spend the money on a proper build there is no reason why 500bhp is attainable, reliably. Just depends on what you want to spend.

Andy1212

The saying "If you have to ask how much, you probably cant afford it" comes to mind.

m73m95

no no ... I'm not asking that.

Honestly, I'm trying to compare the time/money difference between swapping the LS engine or swapping a 3.0L.

The LS will be around 15k (though, I am thinking more if I want to get over 400rwhp) with the engine itself, head work, cam, manifold, and the swap kit.

I'm thinking I could build a 3.0L turbo engine myself for less, and wouldn't need special swap parts... and in the end, it would still be a Porsche.


I am not asking to list the "usual" parts. I want to know what parts are better and/or less expensive (not "cheap") to obtain a 100% reliable 400rwhp car. A 2.7 head, or a 3.0 head with a modded intake? Do I need sodium valves and do I need to have the exhaust ports ceramic coated (Like the stock 951 head), stock block with stock alusil bores? I'm assuming I wouldn't need sleeves at 1.0bar of boost..... things are aren't "normal" to a N/A 2.7 or 3.0L engine to make them reliable enough to add a turbo too.... get it?

MPD47

No, you don't need sodium valves or any of that crap.

For a "budget" build, look up "Markus951"

m73m95

And that is a fine answer too.

If I'm being ignorant for thinking a 3.0L would be reliable enough, or not cost effective enough for my 400rwhp goal, then I would like to know


My goal in whatever I do with whatever engine is 400rwhp+ ....

Olli Snellman

16V head means automatically extra cost and is not needed for a 400hp build up. If you need coatings & sodium filled valves, just modify 2,5L head to accept 3.0L block. I wonder where that tought sleeves are automatically better than oem alusil bores. Sleeves are not needed in your build up.

That engine was sold to Duke in Sweden and it destroyed... There are not reliable "budjet" 3.0L build ups available.


I have watched closely two 3.0L build ups and building my own now. One was done with Dartons sleeves another with oem S2 block.
Two different block types, Sleeved engine had 2,5L head S2 block based engine uses a 2,7L head. Both heads were modified with Chevy valves. In my opinion additional 0.5L does not make these engines more reliable.It depends from which parts these engines were built. Usually better parts (usually more expensive) means more reliablity. Modifed S2/968 pistons does not mean reliability. Some how i understand you would like to have a detailed list of every part what should be used when building a 3.0l engine, most likely my list won't be OK for another 3.0L builder and vice versa.

m73m95

Does it matter if that engine was sold to someone else and destroyed? He was making over 500hp!!

Wouldn't it last forever if tuned down to 400hp? I mean, what was wrong with the general design? (most of the pics are no longer in the thread, so I never got a good look see at what he did .... but he did explain it very well)

gt37vgt

there has basicly been so few 3.0 engines producing only 400 or hp they are commonly making a bit more . ..
A second hand standard 3.0 with a turbo on e 85 will make 400hp reliably..
No sorry i can't prove it right now but fact is no can can prove otherwise as well ...
Markus's car did make more than 400hp relaibly and was cheap .. he belted around in it for a year or so ...
I can abosolutly promise if you buy 3 S2 engines for 6k you will be on the road more than guy who spent 15 to 20 on his "proper built 3.0"