kevincnc

For you guys who only look at the turbo forum-

This will just be for personal use, I don't need an industrial one but want AC/DC so I can do Stainless and Aluminum. I'm looking at the Miller Econotig- http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig/ and the Diversion 165 (new model, just released)- http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/diversion_165/

The Econotig can do regular stick welding also but I don't think I'll really ever care about that- I have a MIG welder.

The only other real difference I see is the Econotig has a foot pedal and the newer, cheaper Diversion 165 one has amperage adjustment built into the handle. I can get the Econotig for about $1500 out the door and the Diversion 165 for about $1300.

Any opinions either way? Maybe there's a comparable one made by Lincoln? I don't want a Chinese one. I have done very little TIG welding- definitely a beginner.

adrial

I haven't done much TIG really, aside for screwing around a couple times. But I would add the foot pedal to the Diversion 165 in order to make them comparable. To me it seems you already have enough going on trying to keep your hand steady, you don't need something else to do up there.

The econotig lists auto shutdown @ high temps ... whereas the Diversion does not... if that's really the case, that could be the decision maker for me. I would check into this, it may just be commonplace now.

The diversion does weigh 90lbs less, which is a big plus. If I were choosing between these two I would probably go for the Diversion with the foot pedal addition.

gt37vgt

I' couldn't justify the triple cost to get ac and aluminum i have a ultra cheap chinese dc with pulse I'm pretty happy with it the only complaint is you can't get bits for the torch .
also if you don't have heaps of good power you simply won't be doing any Aluminum jobs
I have struggled with doing aluminum with single phase rigs (240v 16a) but i think the very expensive ones are ok .
I think you can't go rong with a miller .
I myself can't use a pedal my foot is to heavy. its a real personal preference.
but the units with programmable up slope and down are nice .
At that price a assume it has High frequency start .
They will all stick weld .
if you too have a spastic foot you can later get a dial on the torch .

But as the units have have high frequncy start i find it easer to control the temp with just stop starting and playing with the pulse settings and the gas purge time

CPR

+1^ ^ for whatever reason the guys at the shop do not like the foot pedal...I'll ask why Monday. I do know the input power is critical, all of ours are 480v/3PH units, not something available to a residence, but one that might warrant the investigation of a phase converter transformer for 208v/3PH.

gt37vgt

as the remaining alumunim sucks heaps of heat away from the weld heaps of power is needed
a phase converter won't make more power . but a better welder might more effectively turn electicty to heat .
I'm just flat out concentrating on the weld the arc the pool the filler rod and having myself in a good spot each both hands working using my foot is just too much co-ordination

CPR

I am not sure about that^^ converting from single phase to three phase increases the output capacity and efficeincy of ANY electrically run device....period. That is the exact reason all commercial building in the US are 3 phase and not single....either that or I have been engineering buildings incorrectly for many, many years

evil 944t

Kevin,

I'm sure you don't want to hear this but, save your money and get this...

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...ty_200_series/

It can make a 3 year old weld aluminum. I use a syncrowave 250 and I'm ready to sell it for a new dynasty. You can get the base model and add on. They do great with a water cooled conversion.

It sucks to spend the extra money but in this case, you get what you pay for and a good welder will help you weld better.

kevincnc

You're right that's not what I wanted to hear

I posted this question in a few different forums and there are varying opinions regarding the foot pedal, so I'd be interested to hear what your guys at work say also Patrick. It's sounding like I need to either lower my expectations for welding aluminum or raise my budget (a lot.)

The smaller welders I've been looking at are all single phase and need 50A at 220 VAC single phase to get about 150A at 16 or so volts out at 20% duty cycle. Looking at the Dynasty PDF literature in that link, it appears that on single phase it will only put out the same 150A at 16V but with 60% duty cycle, and only requires 16A input to do that as opposed to 50A input on the smaller welders. Could it be that much more efficient? On single phase would I really be gaining anything over the smaller ones on single phase?

I don't think a cheap static phase converter would do it, so would probably need a good rotary phase converter to get all the power out of the Dynasty, which would add another $600-$700.

kevincnc

Never mind it looks like just the base unit is $2800, by the time everthing needed is added it's more like $4000, way out of my price range.

evil 944t

Using a foot pedal is the easiest thing do do(of course I play the drums too so, that helps,lol). Don't let people scare you away from that.

Long story short, I have about $5k invested in a syncrowave 250 with water cooler, torch runner package, pedal, etc.. 1 year later the dynasty came out. If I could turn the clock back, I would. They are a million times nicer and can make a huge difference in your learning curve.

I guess I would boil it down to, how much are you going to use it, what are you going to use it for and how good are your nerves. It takes a while to learn on an older or cheaper machine.

95ONE

I say spend the extra 200 and get the Econo tig. It looks perfect for what you are a decent entry level TIG.
No foot pedal?

I can't imagine not having one. SOOOOOO much damn easier once you get used to it.

We currently have the Synchrowave 250DX in the shop. I tax out the power when I'm welding up thick aluminum. So, Aluminum NEEDS huge power. Smaller thinner intercooler pipe stuff. I wouldn't worry.
I think the Econotig can handle some intercooler stuff if you don't mind a 3X longer work time.

CPR

Kev,
I'll be sure to ask them Monday about the pedal, I don't know alot about the units other than the last 3 I purchased were close to $20k. Although that high cost may be because one ties to a CNC machine...also I'll call over to the warehouse, I MAY have a used SD-Pro Phase Converter that you can have. Single Phase in 3 phase out w/ multi-tap Voltage hubs (208/377/460/480 volt). The Gov. was throwing them, so my guys took some a few years back. Randy can check Monday...if you are interested.

TRP951

We have a econo tig at school and a miller syncrowave 350 not hooked up yet. The econo tig can do aluminum I have done up to 1/8" thick and it works fine.

kevincnc

Thanks for the help guys. I don't want to be disappointed in what I get and am now thinking more along the lines of this Lincoln , under $1900 and it's 230 amps-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140268301054
Would it be worth the extra money?

Edit: I see that it comes with a "PTA-17 air-cooled 150 amp torch"

Why would they sell a 230A machine with a torch that is only good for 150A, or am I missing something?

ShApE

syncrowave 250. Foot peddle is all I use unless i'm doing a roll cage, then it's finger adjustment. A pulse option is also nice although I think I've only used it 3-4 times.