Fossil

I am preparing to upgrade our 1987 944T.
Car is currently 100% stock except for Koni adjustable dampers on all corners.

Will be used primarily for street with 4 or 5 (hopefully more) track days per year on a 1 mile twisty, flat, 100 mph max track. Corner speeds run 40-80 mph. We also enjoy the mountain twistys in north Georgia a few times a year.
Otherwise the car runs around the Atlanta area daily.

We are tired of the body roll and the ponderous understeer. I do not want a tail happy car, but want to create throttle induced oversteer.

What do you think of these mods:

250# front springs (should I lower it 1-1.5"?)
26.8mm front sway
27mm torsion bars
stock 18mm rear sway (trying to hold down cost)
stock size Kuhmo Ecsta STPs on all four.

Van

I might bump the t-bars up to 29mm...

sawood12

Sounds like your goals are the same as mine. I've got the KWv3, Mo30 rear TB's, RE top mounts, refreshed ARB bushes on stock ARB's with the KLA drop link brackets, and the car is lowered (with Rennbay geom corr ball joint kit - see other thread!!). I find this is a superb setup. Ride quality - though alot more firm is superior to stock suspension.

Body roll through the bends has been drastically reduced (I see no need to uprate ARB's at this stage). There is very little dive under braking and little squat under accellaration. No longer have the problem of the inside wheel spinning when accellarating out of corners (still got an open diff). Extremely secure and stable under heavy braking.

If you're budget stretches I suggest you look no further. It really is night and day compared with stock, and really sharpens up the handling and feel of the car.

Only other mods I plan (apart from sorting out the a-arms) is to look at bushings - i'll certainly go poly bushes on ARB and seeing where that gets me.

vt951

I have 250# front springs with 28mm torsion bars, and it feels very balanced on the track. It might be ok with 27mm, too, but since you want less understeer, you may want to err on the side of slightly bigger torsion bars.

2bridges

I would not even bother pissing around anything under 325# front 29mm rear.
If you are going to the work and expense it is no more of either.
Coupled with 968 mo30 front sway and welt adjustable rear sway and you have a nice multi-use setup

Definitely not to harsh for the street, and a night to day transition on the track.

Fossil

Thanks - all responses are appreciated.

2Bridges - how many miles do you drive your #325lbs front springs on public roads per year?

Does anyone else drive 300+# front springs on public roads 5-10k annually?
What sorts of comments do you have/receive from others re: the ri

2bridges

Approximately 3-4K miles on the street I guess, maybe a little more.
This year was an exception as the car was down an extended period for upgrades.
Our roads here are about as bad as they get.

The real caveat is the shock valving. With mo30 konis set full soft it is reasonable on most any road....... full hard on a really chopped up road and it can be a bit unpleasant.

This setup is moderate enough my wife does not even mind riding in it.
Ran this setup in the 2008 SORC (sandhills open road challenge) and was very pleased with it's performance.

If i had it to do over I would go 350-375

Another consideration is the tire setup you run. A 16" setup (taller sidewall) will soften some of the sharp bumps........ an 18" setup on the other hand will be notably more harsh.

vt951

Mine feels pretty firm on the street. I think most "normal" people would call it downright uncomfortable on any road with bumps or expansion cracks. However, I'm beginning to suspect that I must be running my shocks on too firm of a setting for the street (konis set to about 1/2 in the front). I'm going to try turning them all the way down to full soft and see how much difference that makes...

333pg333

I found the Mo30 on stiff to be way more uncomfortable than the KWs which are on springs about 3 times harder, so yes it does depend on the shocks / valving as well.

2bridges

Hey Fossil - where are you located?

If you can connect with somebody in your area and take a ride in different setups that is your best bet.
Then you can feel for yourself. These matters are somewhat subjective.

if you happen to be in my area I would be happy to take you for a ride.

Jeff N.

I have a similar use profile as you do. 5 or so track days a year, 2nd car with a little city driving but more highway driving. I think the decision point is how much city driving do you do and what's the quality of the city roads?

I'm running the paragon coilover front conversation kit with 400lb nose springs and 30mm rear torsions with Koni struts and stock (so far) sways. It's snug but quite nice on the highway and smooth city streets. On bad city streets, it sucks. Just a difference for a few miles here. Bellevue - the burbs where I live - streets are good. Seattle - main city 15 minutes away - streets suck.

16" tires - good point above on them making a difference.

I'd never go back to the stock setup, this is way to nice.

And yes, you absolutely want to lower it. I targeted my ride height at having the fender lips ~ 25" from the ground. Rides low but not stupid low. There a better ways to measure (check the archives) but this is a quick way to figure out the drop.

Hope this helps - it's hard to decide as there are so many options.

Jeff

Ian Carr

i love my koni yellows with ground control 260# springs. I need to do sways and either coil overs in the rear or bigger torsion bars... or both

Fossil

2 bridges - thanks for your ride offer. The midwest is a bit far from my north Atlanta burbs - previously haunted Naperville, Ill - too cooolllllld!

I would love dome KWvs but not enough to let loose the dollars for them.

This car is driven by my (very well treated) daughter mostly. I only like to track it - and I love it being a novice.
I learned that a previous boyfriend (no not mine) had a 1986 944t with 250# - 29mm t bar- 26.8 f sway and 18 rear sway. I recollect his car feeling rough - lots of road noise - but he said he had flat spotted his tires due to novice tactics on the track.

Another acquaintance of my daughters has Bilsteins on his 944t and offered a ride - I will do that next.

Does anyone have comments regarding the performance/feel difference between the 26.8mm and the 30mm f sways?

Fossil

BTW - dad drives a 1995 Camry with 180k on it - you must have a daughter to even have a chance to understand!