pk951

Any oil with SM is not for our cars The levels of ZDDP are very low made for newer cars 2007 year and up, we talking 1987 cars different valve train parts.
QUOTE Navanarro
Porsche’s recommendation in hand, our initial analysis from 2005 and 2006 and from virgin oil analyses going back to the 1990s, we found that then recent SH/SJ formulations of Mobil lubricants tested, including Mobil 1, have had higher Zn and P content than SL or current SM formulations. Even current "re-introduced" formulations are not the original formulations many shops and owners were used to. Aside from reduced Zn and P levels (now restored in certain products), many products with "adequate" Zn and P still use high levels of Ca detergents, well documented in various SAE publications as known for causing more wear than Ca/Mg or Ca/Mg/Na detergents, as previously used in oils like Mobil 1 15w50, back when it was API SH/SJ rated and prior to reformulation. This confirms the industry wide trend of the reduction of Zn and P from motor oils and switch to Ca-based detergents, with the eventual reduction to 0.06-0.08% or even worse, the elimination of these additives, which are essential to an aircooled Porsche engine's longevity

Quote Navanarro
I'll add to the list oils we've run and are happy with, wear-wise:

Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50
Amsoil m/c Harley V-twin 20w50
Quote Navarro
John, why not run the non-street legal VR-1 in your race car instead? I really do like VR-1 in general, as it's very well formulated with a high HTHS shear viscosity and very high flash point. I'd boost the Zn and P in regular VR-1
Quote Navarro
If they had the royal purple max cycle 20w50 that cheap, that would be must first choice. It's a great oil, right up there with the Mobil 1 V-Twin.

Another poor choice to use I would lump the high mileage GTX as just as poor as a performer as the normal 20w50.

Quote Navarro
It applies in as much as your 944 makes probably as much HP as a 911 with its given displacement for its age and shares much in common in functionality when it comes to valvetrain with similar valvetrain weights and spring pressures, so sure, it's just as important. The biggest difference is in what I would consider normal oil temperatures - a water cooled engine usually runs cooler oil temperatures until it's on the track, so moisture buildup is as much a concern if not more, which is best addressed by exercising the car for longer periods of time, when you do drive it. Same goes for the aircooled guys.

JonH

I switched from Redline to Brad Penn and am convinced they are both excellent, but I can get Brad Penn for $4/qt. locally. You can order Penn online for like $55/case also. The Redline for me was twice as expensive.

reno808

same here i have NO oil residue whats so ever. and this is after 3 years of HARD driving.

I love these threads. Think this is the 20th oil thread this year ALONE with the same exact conclusion. some of you people NEED to Search before you POST

quinnfiske

I ran across this stuff when I was researching this topic. I have not tried it or have any first hand experience with it. Sound like it was designed as an answer to the new oil standards.

http://www.zddplus.com/

pk951

It looks like a great product.

boston951

After much reading and serious deliberation I just added ZDDPlus to my low mile 951. Agip dino oil was used in my last change and it is SM rated.

M758

I have run Valvoline VR1 20w50 in my 944 Turbo S for about 10 years now. I first go it since it seemed like a nice tough dino oil at nice price. $1.67 a qt at my local autozone back in 1998. I have been using it ever since. I used it when I autocross, tracked and street drove the car. Now it just street drive it an change it every 3k mile or so.

I run AMSOIL Series 2000 20w50 racing oil in my 944 spec car. I have been doing this for4-5 year now. I do it because it hold pressure on track at high RPM better then Mobil 1. It is expensive, but I get it on -line in boxes of 4 1 gallon containers and given how hard I push my motor I think it is worth it. I would not run this stuff in a street car how ever since it is just to expensive.

CurtP

Are you using 8820?

ehall

So, how much has your 93 octane gone up, in the same period of time? Have you switched to 87 octane, for the same reason? If not, your reasoning is incongruous and absurd.

ehall

This is a quote by pk951, from the thread mentioned above, by Rolex.

"One other option motorcycle oil
Motorcycle oils have higher levels of phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection and the same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures. Specifically motorcycle oils for aircooled engines are designed for very high localized oil temperatures and high overall oil temperatures, and typically have high flash points coupled with higher HTHS viscosities and lower noack% losses. As a whole, it would appear that all most motorcycle oils we tested have excellent anti-wear additive levels and most are not SM oils, but rather earlier SG, SH, or SJ rated. In a pinch, it should be fairly easy to find a motorcycle oil with any of these SG, SH, or SJ ratings at your local auto parts store when it may be more difficult to get Brad Penn or Swepco, without having it shipped to you. Please do remember that motorcycle oils typically have levels of Zn and P that will kill catalytic converters, so if you have one, either remove it first or use another oil, like Brad Penn or Swepco. Also, motorcycle oils are not as detergent as the aforementioned Brad Penn or Swepco, so you must change the oil much more often, even though the perception of being able to go longer because the oil costs more is a false one."

I use AGIP 4T. It's motor cycle oil. I change it at about 5k.
I DO NOT HAVE A CAT!
This is important.

As for the post that said something about the VAST numbers of "oil threads", A good FIVE of these threads, (just guessing) were created by the thread starter of this thread.

LFA, as I've tried to tell you on several occasions, "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEST, when it comes to oil." There is only "proper", "appropriate for a given application" and "DO NOT DRINK!". There are no other types of oil, vis a vis "worst", "good" and "best".

In all honesty, the price you are willing to pay, for oil, should NEVER be equated to cost. People like daigo, techno duck and m758 put their cars through extensive racing abuse. To them, though cheaper would certainly be nice, it will never determine their oil choice, nor mine...and I'll go out on a limb and suggest that none of us are what one may think of as "rich guys".

Just one last thing, to all. Oil, like gas, is getting expensive, by comparison to our old economic standard. Therefore, it's time to recalibrate our expectations.
Good oil, just like good premium fuel, is the cost of playing in this sandbox.

It would probably be good if one of you guys sent a note to RandyV. (our moderator) requesting that the oil threads be compiled into, perhaps 2 threads. You'll have to do more work than I am willing to do, to compile the various thread info.

Back to the topic, If you get smog checked and MUST run a cat, ZDDP is a legit question for you. Oils that are high in ZDDP, will eventually, perhaps prematurely, clog your cat.
However, those same oils will help prolong your overall engine life. A new engine costs a LOT more than a cat.
Alas, it's your car and your money. The decision is only as right or wrong as the eventual results

Either way, though there are FAR too many of these threads, at the end of the day, we are helping our 951 community by contiually re-hashing this topic. There is some VERY good info, enbedded in these threads.

LFA951

Actually, my reasoning is right on, I am currently using the best oil for my street car for the money...

LFA951

There is such a thing as the best, and it's usually more expensive, otherwise no one would pay the extra $$ for it. In this case, according to independent lab tests, Amsoil is the best lubricant out there with the minimal wear scare on a variety of tests done, it beat Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Redline and all major brands out there, and it is the first synthetic ever produced in March of 1972, so the facts support the studies and research done, and facts cannot be argued or disputed...I will continue using VR1 on my street car and most racers will continue using Amsoil for their track cars because those are the "Best" or in your words "proper"for our applications...

CurtP

Oy, vey. You sound like a Amsoil distributer. This is why talking about oil is as bad as, if not worse than, politics and religion.

If Amsoil is the best, then why did Lubrication Engineers do better on the Falex pin and vee block test? And why did Mobil 1 outperform it in TFOUT (Thin Film Oxidation Uptake Tests)? And why does Amsoil continue to wax poetic about how well they do with the outdated Falex four ball tests? Why does the base stock continuously change with Amsoil, despite it being the same series and weight? Who is the contracted refinery for Amsoil this quarter? And why do they insist on selling it through a pyramid scheme (and try to disguise it as MLM)?

My point is that no single oil can claim to be best at everything. There are compromises you have to reach to find what works best for you. The only way to really know is to have oil analysis performed to see how well a particular oil is protecting your engine with your driving style and maintenance schedule. I've been looking for a starting point. It's up to me to figure out what qualifies as best (OCI, cost, etc).

DrZ1

After reading the 48 pages on the pelian forum, which has been going on for almost a year, and not understanding half or the technical terms, I have decided to go w/ the Brad Penn oil 20w-50 for most of the year and in cold months will run 50/50 mix w/ 0w-30 to give a 10w-40 weight. It seems a reasoable priced oil at 4-6$ quart. I cant see paying much more then $6 quart. since I put alot of miles on my street car and I will change the oil after every track day with the DE car when finished. It may not be the best but seems well supported.

Steve.

KuHL 951

This is the main reason I will never buy Amsoil. It's like letting a Shaklee salesman in your house.