2000wrx

The cost of maintaining a Porsche is something I will never understand... Why can Japan make a performance car that is 9/10 and in some cases 11/10 a Porsche's performance, that requires $0.0 in running costs.... and will last as long if not longer... (see 200-300K Subarus).

This for me is a source of frustration. $2000 a year is the kind of thing I am concerned with. I want a Porsche, a 911 is the real dream. I just wanted to see if in my current situation a Porsche makes sense. From what I can tell it may not.


If anyone here would be so kind to lend an opinion in the General forum where I have started a car suggestion thread. I need sub 15K daily driver sporty car suggestions LOL


Thanks a ton guys.

333pg333

If all you want is a dd that is pretty quick but cheap to run I'd stick with the Jap stuff. If you want something more, or to track it and have a bit of money to spare then think of the 968. If you want to have something special/track and have a lot more money to spare do the 951. However they just will never stack up against alternatives out there in the bang for buck dept. IMHO

2000wrx

yea, I started a thread about cost of ownership. I also plan on talking with a local PCA shop about costs. Once I better understand the real costs I can make a better decision...

If I don't go the Porsche route, I will look at MR2 Turbos, or S2000's.

I just wish I could understand why Japan can do what Germany can't... *shrug*

500

Hey, you are talking about 20+ year old cars here, that has to be taken into account. I am intimately familiar with my Subaru and how well (or not) it has been built and I would not expect it to be as reliable at that point in its life either. As a matter of fact, I never see Subarus that old around here...

Some people buy 951s thinking they can put bigger turbos etc on to get big HP for the same outlay as newer cars. Reality is that most 951s likely need a few grand (or more) of sorting first, before even thinking of mods.

I have heard this logic before: "Why pay $20-something for a newish WRX when I can spend less than half that on a 951 and be able to get 350+ rwhp for "not much" money?" Yup, does not work that way!! Turbo cars in general are mod-friendly but a Porsche will never be the economical route. Only get a Porsche is you want a PORSCHE. If you are instead looking for a platform to mod extensively, then a newer machine will be much more economical, especially if your ownership horizon is not too long.

gt37vgt

I think nothing made in 86 comes close to a 951 for similar bucks .
I think the 944 is pretty cost effective up to about 320 odd whp at witch point you have to open the engine up . for a 400hp set up a realy mild 968 turbo is the way to go .
At 500hp all bets are off you are to greedy and must suffer for evermore .
I realy have a soft spot for a good NA car that has been turbo ed but that is just my sick disorder
s2000 968 944s2 4wd suzuki swift , M3 and 350Z even miata corvette ,Viper R32 .
but even with bolt on turbos as soon as you get greedy and have to open up the engine it all gets out of hand

superloaf

wow, you guys are harsh. i guess i've never owned a japanese car (and never will) with which to compare, but porsches and other euro cars cost what they cost. can you run them for less money? of course, i'm perennially poor and if i can live with a 951, then anyone with a real job & consistent income should be fine. if you can do the work on the car yourself, you'll be ok. i wouldn't hesitate recommending a 951 to you if you know anything about cars.

i've had my 951 for 10 years or so and the only problems i've had for any sort of real money was a tranny go bad. but a quick look to rennlist and lart sold me a used trans for $350 and i put it in myself. other than that the only difficult expenses are the usual timing belt (which i've never done myself but will the next time it's due) and the PITA steering rack (but to be fair, every euro car i've ever owned with PS has gone through major rack problems. i finally gave up on PS and went with a manual rack.

of course, if you're used to modern cars with their level of refinement & power, you may be disappointed with the 951. and it will be cheaper to add HP to a japanese car simply because there are more of those cars and the law of supply and demand. i currently have less than 300hp but my car feels plenty fast and it feels much faster than the stock 951 but i suspect that's more of a factor of how the boost comes on. if you're looking for a 400hp car that will smoke anything, then you should be prepared for great expense, lots of hours with the car apart, and lots of tuning time. not to mention lots of things which will want to fail under the increased power.

i say buy one, see what you think and go from there. you can always sell it (the prices seem to be going up.) after all, there is a magic in these cars that the japanese can't seem to master and if you value the way a car "feels," you will not be happy with anything else.

ok, everyone, bash away . . . .

ehall

Well, I always enjoy a good bash, but I can't really see any reason for one as a result of what you said. It sounds pretty accurate, from my experience.

George D

Listen to me.

I've owned three Subaru's. Two blown. One 1978 Datsun Z that I put a Skyline inline NA six in. One 2003 EVO that was modded, one 9/5 Aero with 380 FWH (Great Car), and quite a few others, M3's, S4's, 911NA cars, a Vette, etc. When you buy them right, you always get your money back.

The only car that I ever missed was my old 89 951 with a measly 330whp that I sold eight years ago. Funny, but this was the fastest car that I've owned when it comes down to a real sports car. Some of you know what I mean. This was the only car that I actually thought about when driving/owning others. Sort of the same reason I married my wife.

I tried to replace it with many other rides, and realized that I liked it best. It was, for me the mark to beat, and none of them did when my own set of values in a sports car were tested. This is why I have spent way too much money on my current 951 project. I simply love these cars, their performance, and how well I can drive them. These cars just make me smile when I'm behind the wheel like no other. My current 951 will be in the stable for a long time. I'll continue to make it better for me. My daily is a Lexus sedan, and my offroad SUV is a Lexus LX470 that pulls many out with it's ARB bumper and 12K winch. Toyota put so much engineering into the off road capability of these trucks. Most don't ever see dirt, let alone what I put my truck through. Best offroad SUV on the planet.

If you just want a fast daily driver, get a STI, Saab Aero, the newer 2.2 blown Mazda, 350Z twin turbo, or best bang for the buck a 2003 EVO. I could change the turbo on a EVO in 30 minutes. Those EVO motors will take 25psi boost on 91 fuel and not give you any issues. Best 4 cylinder turbo motor on the planet, in my opinion. The Subaru turbo motors don't come close for the same money in upgrades as far as performance goes.

Don't get a 951 if this is your daily driver and you are concerned about cost. Too many other cars that fit this much better. If you drive a well sorted 951, you might understand why some of us do what we do. www.speedforceracing.com will put a twin turbo kit on a 350Z and hit 500whp for 10K. It's just not my cup of tea, wish it was though.

A daily driven 951 in the hands of someone that wants to keep upkeep costs to a minimum will be very unhappy. Trust me, if costs are an issue go elsewhere. Geez, I must be bored.

My sincere 2 cents.

George

89951DREAMER

What the Porsche has that any other car lacks is quality of engineering, fit and finish, and the solid feel you get behind the wheel. There are few cars in the world that feel as solid at 150mph as a Porsche. And the Porsche will do it all day long. That is what you are paying for. German engineering really is something special. I am a tech for a BMW dealership and I don't own a single BMW, but I have driven all of them and they also have that special feeling behind the wheel. I have the same feelings about Audi, MBZ, and VW. Those Germans are no joke. Nowhere else in the word are cars engineered to live at 150mph+.

Ian

brrt50cal

I think the key to any vehicle is being able to do the work yourself. Back before I was even planning on becoming a certified tech, I was taking my vehicle to an outstanding mechanic who is now my mentor. He charges $50 an hour to work on anything you bring in, minus top exotics of course. I've seen Porsche mechanics charge $125+. Can anyone making less than 15 bucks an hour afford to be able to take their vehicle to someone like that? I severely doubt it. The point is, learn as much as you can about what you're working on. Porsche's are wonderfully over-engineered but you don't need a degree to be able to work on them. Plus, if you have friends that are machinists then your life will be 160000000 times easier. Good luck and Godspeed.

lart951

About 2 years ago I was paying in my 951 simulator and encounter a black 350zx with California license plate PSI2RUN , the guy claimed that the car was turbo charged and well beyond 400rwhp but never came close in the two simulator runs we had, he blame the loss to a missed gear change. I think it was the extra 700lbs that made the difference.

lart951

Btw, my lartmobile was extremely reliable after I spent nearly 30k changing every single part on my car I had no problems whatsoever.

ehall

ummm...yeah...umm..but you spent some of that letting Danno blow it up? ROFL!

sawood12

My experience so far of my 951, which is mildly modded by alot of cars' on this forums standards, but is a daily driver is that it is dirt cheap to run - the cheapest car i've ever had. Other than the usual servicing costs i've spent nothing on it in the last 3 years (apart from a few mods - mainly suspension and brakes). Remember the 951 engine is a pretty basic 8v 4-pot.

The Subaru and Evo crowd benefit from lots of good and well developed aftermarket products due to the volume of cars out there. The 951 doesn't and modding usually ends up being down to individual owners so inevitably there are going to be some mistakes made along the way - but there are plenty of 951's out there pumping out good power levels perfectly reliably. Power for power I can't see a modded 951 being more costly to run or maintain than a Subaru or Evo (Evos need servicing every 3500 miles, so there is no way they are going to be cheaper to run).

In relation to the original question, 968's if properly maintained can be as reliable as a 951, however the problem is that Porsche did not specify a service interval for the cam chain and tensioner so as a result some cars have fallen foul to lack of attention there. So if you go the 968 route factor in the cost of a cam chain and tensioner replacement to zero the life on those components.

FRporscheman

I have never owned a more reliable car than the 968. Even my old mercedes diesel has been less reliable than the 968. It's the definition of reliable.

My '95 has 178k on it, original clutch, motor, tranny (rebuilt pinion bearing).
My '93 has 226k on it, original bottom end and tranny (head rebuilt 4k ago, was not necessary).

My only experience with a 951, is that I spent a summer getting paid by a friend to fix his 951. While I spent the summer driving my 968. If you're looking to buy a car because your other car broke down, then buying a turbo doesn't make much sense, eh? Just sayin'.