lart951

Not only your spanish my friendo but your comprehension skillz are nada

reno808

hahahahahahahaha

944GTR-S

Another future member of my fecal roster.

Darwantae951

This sentence says everything. You don't own a 944 nor do you have any experience with any vendor in question in this thread. Stop posting, please.

And why have you posted in the past claiming to own an 86 951?

Sounds like Lindsey Racing has an obsessed fan in the making. You gonna be the LR poster child?

333pg333

That's a pretty weird response??

Darwantae951

I'm telling you, he's a kid who googled 944, found LR, and became obsessed!

reno808

he is a grouppeeeeeeeeeee if you know what i mean

RPHARRIS

Here is the meat of what Dave Lindsey had to say about it, if you want to hear the rest go on turbo944.com and read it for yourself. I personally have no stake in this issue, I'm just doing what I think is right. From the beginning I have encouraged people to draw their own conclusions but only once they have heard from BOTH sides. My apologies to Evil, I'm sure that he's a stand-up guy.


"We met ARE at PRI in December. They told us they would not build us a 944 pan because they already have someone in the US selling a 944 pan they make. At that time, we had NO idea David's pan was made by them. ARE told us that. So we contacted another company to build a pan for us from scratch which is still in development. In the mean time, Havik who we were already doing business with told us they have a pan we can purchase today when the word Dry-Sump was mentioned. So... we now have a pan to sell. Pretty simple how it all works out sometimes for the best. No design or tooling investment on our part required and the part has been already tested on the race track."

blodstrupmoen

Weird 2 yrs ago and you would amost get banned if youd say something negative about LR ..

944CS

lart i'm laughing my *** off, people who know you much better than I don't even get it

Tms951

They did not make a copy they are selling another persons product which is also not a copy. If selling a competing product is unethical, they are guilty. I far as I am concerned competition in the market place is good. basicly what you are saying is that after the first company made a 3" exhaust for these cars every company that sold one after was unethical and selling a rip off? Get real.

Lindseys side:
Not again.... looks like someone opened a big ugly can of someone else's worms on our door step. We have intentionally kept our experience and knowledge we gained though a recent purchase to ourselves, but it looks like we now must share. I apologize for us having to pony up our side on this and anyone's reputation hurt or worse when we share our experiences. Fortunately, we didn't open this can.

We have been accused of stealing an oil pan design from CEP. And who knows what else.

Havik Racing in Belgium designed this cast aluminum 944 oil pan "4" years ago according to what ARE (the manufacturer) told us just last week. You even see it on their website. True, they don't buy or sell tons of them but that's not in dispute here. What's in dispute is that we copied a CEP oil pan and have the same manufacturer making it. ARE has built this pan for Havik since they designed it together. ARE made a couple of small design changes and now sells the pan to CEP in the last year or two? David may of not even know he was selling a pan that Havik spent thousands of dollars and time developing. ARE might not of told him that. But David has claimed it is his unique design which sure sounds like that's not true. Now we are accused of stealing a pan designed by David when in fact we are selling a pan designed by Havik 2-3 years earlier that he copied, intentionally or not.

We met ARE at PRI in December. They told us they would not build us a 944 pan because they already have someone in the US selling a 944 pan they make. At that time, we had NO idea David's pan was made by them. ARE told us that. So we contacted another company to build a pan for us from scratch which is still in development. In the mean time, Havik who we were already doing business with told us they have a pan we can purchase today when the word Dry-Sump was mentioned. So... we now have a pan to sell. Pretty simple how it all works out sometimes for the best. No design or tooling investment on our part required and the part has been already tested on the race track.

Now.... It seems that certain people feel that it's ok for CEP to sell a pan designed by someone else with only making a couple of changes and claim it's their design, but Lindsey Racing cannot look at others designs and improve upon them and sell them.

Now one of the things we learned with David's pan is that you cannot install both a turbo drain fitting on the pan and a 3" turbo down pipe together on the same car. We even doubt if a stock down pipe will work. The hole is on the wrong spot and there is no room for a fitting. We had to modify his pan and install our own turbo drain return in order to clear the down pipe. We also had to do some clearancing on the inside of the pan but that's hardly worth mentioning, unless of course you didn't catch it. Makes us wonder if anyone has ever installed one of these without doing everything we had to do.

We have a on-going continual supply of these pans available to us contrary to what someone else says. We also know CEP has not bought and sold as many as claimed. David knows this and needs to explain that to his soap box person rather then keep spreading the b/s.

Had David handled things differently, we would be selling his pan and kit but it hasn't worked out that way. We have a better program now in place working with Havik and others.

I hope this may clear up the pan "drama".

DL/LR

Haviks side:Hi Guys,

We heard from this topic from a few friends of mine and I have been thinking hard if we should react or not. We know the power of the Internet and also knows it is sometimes used by people claiming things which are not always true the way they tell. Normally I don’t react on a topic whatever they say, but this time we felt the need to do. So I hope to get the respect for doing this.

Let me introduce myself. I am Robert van kol, owner of HAVIK Racing Solution in Belgium and owner developer of the original 944 dry sump pan, which is now offered by Lindsey Racing. In no way Lindsey has been involved in making this pan, just they are the distributor for me for the US market like I am distributing material of them in Europe. It is just a business deal between the 2 of us of which we feel Lindsey was the right person to support this pan overseas.

In fact the first drawings of this dry sump pan already exist from somewhere 2004 where the development started together with ARE drysumps. It was then we paid for a 944 engine where ARE could start his first casting on. After trying some designs the definite design finished somewhere the end of 2006 where we started production of a pan which fitted on 944,944 turbo and 968..

You can find my link at: http://www.drysump.com/pan28.htm.

Indeed we heard last year from the existence of CEP pans when we got an email from a customer from the UK who wanted to compare prices. Its there where we found out there was a clone made from mine original design. We didn’t know CEP and have never been in contact with them but recognized the base of their pan.

So asking ARE about this issue he claimed there was enough market for more designs and I had to agree I couldn’t have the whole world so he started on my design to help CEP.

I agreed on ARE the world is big enough for more players and I didn’t care CEP was selling as well what was basically our design. In the meantime HAVIK RS has several engines running successfully our drysump pans.

You can find here a few small films on youtube where you can see our pan in action last year. Hopefully this clears it for all of us and we all can go on with our daily business.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xORZcoIJzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgudZEy6VWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL25C7Xe_RQ

Rob van kol
HAVIK Racing Solutions
Belgium
www.havikrs.com


CEPs side:
Well I have not yet seen a full post from him on his full side of the story, more of just letting other people spew **** for him. Good job, got a real customer out of me.


look at the facts it is not that hard to see the truth.

lart951

Harris looking for a lR discount, you are indeed the

evil 944t

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You truely out did yourself!!!!!

lart951

Bhawaahahahwahahawhahaaa

lart951

that's because you're smart