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Swiss "951 Turbo RS" project thread

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Old 01-14-2008, 05:19 PM
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951rs
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Default Swiss "951 Turbo RS" project thread

Hi all

I already introduced myself sporadically on rennlist some time ago and some of you already might know my car from spotting it on the web but don't know any further details about it - yet…

I therefore want to start this thread in order to present my project “951 Turbo RS” at its current stage and the way forward. I already have worked on the car quite a lot but it still is far from completion...I hope that I will be able to bring it (very close) to completion in 2008.

Let us start with some old pics of the car:





My 951 is an 1985 car, one of the very first cars that were delivered to Switzerland and imported via the RUF importer to Switzerland. I wanted to have a 1985 model due to the lower weight and less "BS-options" to remove. I bought a 951 because I always liked the unique and timeless shape of Transaxle Porsches of which I prefer the 951 (except for a 968 Turbo S, off course) and because I have been told that these cars are heavily underrated and seriously quick. I first wanted the 951 as an interim solution only and then soon "move on" to a 911 Turbo, ideally a 964 Turbo. Driving the car and working on it made me change my opinion on the 951 quickly though. Even if I also love 911s (especially the 930, the 964 turbo and the 993 turbo) and am absolutely addicted to their engine sound I prefer the handling and the ergonomics of the 951. The 951 is much more a drivers car due to a perfect seating and controls position, position, pedals, etc. In stock configuration it is quite fast in an unspectacular way being the complete opposite of a 964 turbo which is more spectacular than a chipped 951 but not faster at all…So instead of going down the standard route and buy a 964 turbo, I decided to use the 951 as a reliable and solid platform to build a very fast and more spectacular version of it…and there we go…
The status pictured above is from last summer. Let's have a look at the different areas of it…
Old 01-14-2008, 05:22 PM
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951rs
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Default Bodywork

Bodywork / exterior

The bodywork of the car implements the following modifications (front to back) so far:

- Custom made front splitter featuring DTM style corner wings
- Custom made Strosek based sideskirts including 993RS style front and end corners
- Custom made rear wing built from a damaged adjustable 968 turbo RS wing. I have amended the section where the side support blends into the lateral cover on the rear hatch and increased the height of the trailing edge.
- Lightened rear bumper no longer featuring the rubber element and the tow hook
- Custom rear lights

Detail picture of the front splitter:



I have just completed my Turbo RS bonnet featuring a Turbo RS wiper deflector and air outlets which Mark (future) already has introduced to you. Besides the functional advantage of reducing temperature in the engine bay considerably (outlets) and improving the cars aerodynamics (deflector) they look excellent and match the cars design perfectly. The quality and the fitment of these parts is very good, also check the 4th picture below where you can see the precise fitment and how the outlet beautifully implements that run along the bonnet…
I will post more pictures of the car with the white stripes put on once I have some time to finish it…






Future plans include:
- Dual headlight kit (the same as featured on Marks car)
- redesigned front panel (I already had one where I cut out an air outlet of the same shape as the IC inlet in the front bumper has…looked really nice but I was not 100% with the quality so it had to go)
Old 01-14-2008, 05:23 PM
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951rs
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Default Suspension / wheels / brakes

After a long query and numerous discussions with friends from germany I decided to go for the KW Variante 3 suspension system. A german enthusiast has tested many different suspension systems on his 968CS on Hockenheim racetrack, measured and compared lap times and came to the conclusion that the KW Var 3 is both the fastest and the most comfortable suspension system available (Yes, this compromise exists!). Once I had fitted the suspension system to my car I was really impressed. It is impressively comfortable while providing an astonishing level of grip. I believe that this system really is a new generation compared to older systems like the Bilstein Cup and the best overall system the market currently offers for our cars. The valve setup really seems to make the difference…
To complement the new coilover system I also added a nice adjustable aluminium strut brace.
I also got some track proven settings from a german friend so I’m really satisfied with it (If somebody wants the settings send me a PM).
What concerns the wheels, I currently have fitted some heavy 17inch 993 turbo design wheels which I have painted white. This is an interim solution only. I do have some brand new 18inch hollow spoke wheels painted in the same colour, the fronts are extremely rare OEM 9inch versions.
I currently have not decided yet if I will fit them as this will require installing the late offset parts. Mark has a set of Veloce GT1’s which also would fit very well and are even lighter than the hollow spokes…
The brakes currently are revised standard ones with new disks and pads all around. I probably will upgrade to big reds or a similar option on the front. I will also fit 968 stabilizers.
Old 01-14-2008, 05:25 PM
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951rs
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Default Interior

Interior
The interior currently also is in an interim stage. Beside a first stage of general BS deletion (AC, tempomat, stereo), I have removed the rear and the front seats and replaced them with Recaro bucket seats, installed a Momo GT2 steering wheel and the latest Schroth 6 point harnesses. This is just the beginning though, there is much more to come (or to go respectively ;D)
I started manufacturing some carbon fibre interior like the window switches and the armrest




In the next few weeks, I will strip out the interior completely and remove all sound-deadening material and isolation using a special dry-ice process. I don’t have four days time to remove this annoying stuff all manually so I will go the dry ice way which I have been told should provide very clean results with ease. If anybody here has tried this before please post your experiences!
The interior then will be properly painted in guards red and I will fit a HEIGO safety cell painted in white which also features a bar that goes underneath the steering wheel…HEIGO safety cells are quite expensive but very hugh quality.



The Recaro seats will get back in again



And I will add some very nice lightweight carbon fibre door cards (an improved version of the 964RS style ones specifically engineered for the 944/951/968) that currently are developed by Mark and will be ready soon. And I will add some plastic windows.
I also plan to install a nice set of DEFI black gauges in order to have full monitoring on the engine status…which brings us to the last topic of this long first post:
Old 01-14-2008, 05:26 PM
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951rs
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Default Engine and powertrain

Engine and powertrain:
I spent a lot of time thinking about my preferred engine and powertrain setup. I had a lot of discussions and changed my opinion several times. I also have to admit that this is a very difficult topic and that the opinions among enthusiasts also vary extremely. I first wanted to go the 2.8 liter way but have changed my opinion after speaking with two friends from Germany and Olli Snellmann. To cut a long story short, I will do the following and have most of the parts sitting and waiting for assembly.

-Brand new 968 engine block from the factory (I happen to have a good contact in Germany ;D )

-S2 crankshaft (I will not use the 968 crankshaft even if it is about 2kg’s lighter)

-Heavy duty con rods (custom made in Finland), standard length.

-2.7 liter cylinder head

-Either OEM 968 Turbo pistons or machined S2 pistons (I was quite sceptic regarding the use of machined S2 pistons but a german friend of mine has built about 10 3.0litre turbo engines both for street
and track use and after destroying a series of engines and the cooperation with an engineer from MAHLE germany he managed to get a set of pistons working flawlessly above 450 Euro bhp. He gets these pistons machined and Ferrostan coating by MAHLE (Porsche supplier) directly so I might go that way instead of paying much more for Turbo RS pistons…)
This engine build is very much euro spec (as the rest of my car) and does not include sleeves. I’m very interested in Olli’s build as he will be going a similar route…

- I will use a new wastegate and a hybrid turbocharger and lots of other goodies which I will list in detail when we start assembling the engine.. .
What concerns the engine management system I will also go a different route which will be very OEM / euro spec, too. I’m very convinced of the BOSCH motronic system and think that this system is an important part of why our engines are that reliable and solid. The knock control features are very important. The problem is though that many don’t understand the system and Without wanting to insult somebody on rennlist I am quite convinced that approximately nobody (me included) really understands the Motronic system, its programming and its limit in detail. I happen to know a german engineer who does and who is an expert when it comes to Porsche Motronic systems. He has developed a set of chips that provide 1.2 bar of boost with all safety features still fully working. It requires DME and KLR chips, a different cycling valve (Audi RS2 is an option) and a pressure sensor, both capable of dealing with the higher pressure levels, but otherwise is a bolt-in upgrade. With this set of chips and a MAF a standard 250bhp 951 puts down between 330 and 340 bhp (conservative euro numbers, off course).
I will use his kit as a basis and will get my car fine tuned by him…

Allright, that has been enough for today…I will update this thread frequently…and add some pictures of the engine components soon…

Cheers

Beni

P.S: If you guys need something from germany or a translator, let Mark (future) or me know…
Old 01-14-2008, 05:41 PM
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Looks a great project Beni and I look forward to your progress.
Old 01-14-2008, 05:58 PM
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Hi, nice project! where did you buy those air outlets on your hood? have been looking for those for a long time. hope you can answear.

keep on the good work
Old 01-14-2008, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 951rs
I happen to know a german engineer who does and who is an expert when it comes to Porsche Motronic systems. He has developed a set of chips that provide 1.2 bar of boost with all safety features still fully working. It requires DME and KLR chips, a different cycling valve (Audi RS2 is an option) and a pressure sensor, both capable of dealing with the higher pressure levels, but otherwise is a bolt-in upgrade.
Hi Benni,

Is this guy living in Giessen. If not, then please give me his contact address, because I want to go the same route:
- KLR as boost controller with RS2 cycling valve and programmable 2.5 bar pressure sensor
- DME with direct MAP (no MAF), no piggyback


BTW: your front splitter looks great. Can you make more of these?

Gruetzi Emil
Old 01-14-2008, 06:05 PM
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That looks incredible.

Next time you make something out of carbon fiber you should post pictures of the process- that would be sweet.
Old 01-14-2008, 06:12 PM
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Looking good!
Keep us updated

/Gustaf
Old 01-14-2008, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 951rs
Engine and powertrain:
I spent a lot of time thinking about my preferred engine and powertrain setup. I had a lot of discussions and changed my opinion several times. I also have to admit that this is a very difficult topic and that the opinions among enthusiasts also vary extremely. I first wanted to go the 2.8 liter way but have changed my opinion after speaking with two friends from Germany and Olli Snellmann. To cut a long story short, I will do the following and have most of the parts sitting and waiting for assembly.

-Brand new 968 engine block from the factory (I happen to have a good contact in Germany ;D )

-S2 crankshaft (I will not use the 968 crankshaft even if it is about 2kg’s lighter)

-Heavy duty con rods (custom made in Finland), standard length.

-2.7 liter cylinder head

-Either OEM 968 Turbo pistons or machined S2 pistons (I was quite sceptic regarding the use of machined S2 pistons but a german friend of mine has built about 10 3.0litre turbo engines both for street
and track use and after destroying a series of engines and the cooperation with an engineer from MAHLE germany he managed to get a set of pistons working flawlessly above 450 Euro bhp. He gets these pistons machined and Ferrostan coating by MAHLE (Porsche supplier) directly so I might go that way instead of paying much more for Turbo RS pistons…)
This engine build is very much euro spec (as the rest of my car) and does not include sleeves. I’m very interested in Olli’s build as he will be going a similar route…

- I will use a new wastegate and a hybrid turbocharger and lots of other goodies which I will list in detail when we start assembling the engine.. .
What concerns the engine management system I will also go a different route which will be very OEM / euro spec, too. I’m very convinced of the BOSCH motronic system and think that this system is an important part of why our engines are that reliable and solid. The knock control features are very important. The problem is though that many don’t understand the system and Without wanting to insult somebody on rennlist I am quite convinced that approximately nobody (me included) really understands the Motronic system, its programming and its limit in detail. I happen to know a german engineer who does and who is an expert when it comes to Porsche Motronic systems. He has developed a set of chips that provide 1.2 bar of boost with all safety features still fully working. It requires DME and KLR chips, a different cycling valve (Audi RS2 is an option) and a pressure sensor, both capable of dealing with the higher pressure levels, but otherwise is a bolt-in upgrade. With this set of chips and a MAF a standard 250bhp 951 puts down between 330 and 340 bhp (conservative euro numbers, off course).
I will use his kit as a basis and will get my car fine tuned by him…

Allright, that has been enough for today…I will update this thread frequently…and add some pictures of the engine components soon…

Cheers

Beni

P.S: If you guys need something from germany or a translator, let Mark (future) or me know…


Wow - interesting project.
I wish you good luck!
I can tell from MANY things you say that you have a long road with LOTS of learning ahead of you.
Enjoy it.
Old 01-14-2008, 06:28 PM
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Luis de Prat
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Originally Posted by 951rs
P.S: If you guys need something from germany or a translator, let Mark (future) or me know…
Hi,

Looks like an exciting project. I would love to have a 951 coupe to modify eventually. My 951 cab is a Swiss spec car, originally from Zürich. I bought it there and drove it down to Barcelona in 2000.

Could you tell me what strut brace you're using and where I might find it? I am also interested in the Motronic tuning you mentioned. Please keep us updated!

Thanks.
Old 01-14-2008, 07:33 PM
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Thumbs up Nice!

Freakin awesome man!

How did you do the rubber strip delete on the euro bumper? It looks super clean...
Old 01-14-2008, 07:43 PM
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951rs
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Hi all

Thanks for your positive replies.

Special tool and Duke: Thanks, I'm also monitoring your projects with great interest...

Next time I do cf or cf coating (which will not be that soon unfortunately) I will post pictures.

Some more details for the hood louvers and how to fit them: I wanted to repaint my entire bonnet, so I removed all the sound deadening material on its lower side. I then precisely indicated where the louvers should sit using white tape and first used a heavy duty cut wheel machine to cut the holes out. I then tried a simple Dremel which even worked more precise so I used this for the remaining process. You can easily cut out the holes in 45mins for both sides. Then you have to clean up the edges, protect the blank metal against rust and use some sanding paper to fit the FRP lowers into the holes. I then glued them in position using small screw clamps. I then fitted the deflector which is also an easy task and made the hood ready for painting...

If you don't want to repaint the entire hood, you can also just paint the louvers and fit them into the bonnet, fitment will not be as perfect as here but still very good...











The hood louvers will be sold by us, I can post prices in two weeks...


1.2bar ECU upgrade - Kekso and Luis de Prat:

No, this is not about ETG Giessen (Rolf Dieter Eichner)

The engineers name is Thomas Voight. He owns a 968 Turbo S and a 924 Carrera GT. We will be distributing his products (worldwide except for the northern american market), he does no longer sell them directly. We will also have BOSCH-based bolt-in stealth MAF kits that work plug and play, no tuning required...

This new 1.2bar kit will be ready for serial production in spring 2008.

Cheers

Beni
Old 01-14-2008, 07:48 PM
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951rs
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Luis - I love your 951 cabriolet. I would like to get hold of one and fit some nice speedline rims to it...otherwise even I would leave it stock as it simply looks perfect!

Opeth - that's very easy: remove the bumper, loosen the screws of the rubber strip and cut the rear tow hook mounting off using a cut wheel. Use some bodyfiller to fill the holes. Repaint it.

Btw, does anybody know if euro spec rear bumpers are a bolt-on mod to US spec cars? Any differences?

Cheers
Beni


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