sawood12

Anyone here running the latest generation of the Link MAP piggy back system? - or a similar alternative product. There is a guy in the UK that is running one that he bought and installed a few years back and although through lots of hard work and determination he has got it running pretty well he says it has been a real pain in the neck. I'm wondering if they have developed the system to one that is easy to set up - a bit like the Vitesse piggy back.

Cheers, Scott.

sawood12

I'm also interested in knowing if there are any other MAP piggy back products out there instead of Link?

eniac

There are many MAP piggy backs on the market however the Link is the only I know that anyone has bothered to setup for a 951. I understand this is a small market but it's sad to see the "new upgrades" for our cars being many years, over even a decade or more behind others.

I am a huge fan of a MAP over a MAF, idealy one would have both but again no one has bothered to develop such a system for us. I am currently using an old Link with Russel's chips. The car runs great in all temperatures. It's fine at low and high boost. Of course my fuel curve looks more like the rocky mountains then the smooth plain you would get from Vitesse however the mixture is never dangerously lean. Previously I had a Huntley Stage 4 MAF which was terrible. I was too lean at lows RPM and way too rich at high boost, I could not tune it out no matter what I tried.

If you want a MAP with the least hassle and most support, the Link is all there is. It's horribly outdated and I see nothing new coming in the future from Link that is specific to us.

The best option I would say for 951 would be a Greddy Emanage. Greddy does not offer any support but it will work. You just have to start from scratch rather then using a preloaded program. It's more work but in the end it will function much better.

The reason Greddy told me they will not support a 951 is the factory Motronic does not handle the converted MAP signal very well. This is the simple way of saying it but I do agree with them. The only correct way to use a MAP system on a 951 is with a standalone.

951Boost

I would have to categorize Rogue_Ant's MAP build as "pretty darn successful". And he’s not using a Link system.

Check it out;

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=1856

badcoupe

those translator pro are nice I tune a dsm with one on it and it's very flexible, I'm trying to talk a mustang guy into one instead of paying 350 dollars for a retune everytime he makes a change. I have a link map kit I don't use anymore, although I had really good luck with it. I went to vitesse to see just how good his stuff is and I'm impressed.

Rogue_Ant

My setup is miles beyond what is capable with the Link-MAP setup. And the functionality of mine is only improving as new software versions come out. One of the strongest points for my setup is the level of support from the guy who made the system! I've had more then one of my 'special needs' been implemented into the system. Try to get that level of support anywhere else.


Rogue

eniac

Do you mind posting a copy of your AFR from a dyno sheet or datalogger? I'm very curious to see how it looks. I have yet to see any piggy back MAP system with a Motronic give a somewhat flat AFR. Some are not bad but I would really like to see one close to Vitesse MAF. The main problem I have run into, no matter how good the piggyback is, would be the limitations on the DME.

Another option is a megasquirt but I didn't mention it as it did not appear that the OP wanted to do that much work.

Rogue_Ant

Sure here is my very first dyno run with minimal tuning - I simply got it in the ball-park and let the Closed-Loop function of my Piggy-Back do the rest:




Rogue

sawood12

That looks and sounds pretty impressive Rogue. How easy is the system to install and set up say in relation to Vitesse? I don't mind spending time and effort to optimise the system but I cannot afford the time to get the system up and running - it needs to be almost plug and play - or a close approximation. My car is my daily runner so can't afford it to be off the road so if I cannot install and get running, even in a safe mode, over a weekend then I might struggle.

I'm also interested in the knock monitoring feature. Is it simply a knock monitoring i.e. it just tells you when you have knock, or does it actually modify fuelling and/or ignition to pull back like the stock KLR?

Jake951

I had a Link MAP piggyback setup a while back. Actually I didn't find the tuning to be all that difficult with my vehicle. It worked pretty well. Here's a dyno result:




However, I later discovered that the tuning was temperature-dependent. In cold weather I found my A/F ratios got leaner. This may be one of the issues with making it work with the Motronic system.

I don't have these problems with the Vitesse MAF, which also has better driveability.

eniac

Thanks for the info. That really is nice, I'll have to do some reading on the Translator Pro. I saw it awhile back, even saved the link in my bookamrks, just never got around to seriously reading into it. The AFR Jake951 posted is more what I see from the other "well" tuned MAP piggybacks. Notice how the one AFR is already leveled out at 3500rpm where the other is still jumping around.
Best way to say it is on the Link tuning is very easy, fine tuning near impossible.

Rogue_Ant

Install is about a difficult as installing a radio. Not very hard at all. If you have a chip that is expecting the LR MAF then it should be quite drivable immediately. Of course it is not the solution for someone who doesn't want to tune their cars..

Currently it only counts knock events after certain thresholds have been met. This 'cleans-up' the knock count revealing only true knock.


Rogue

Rogue_Ant

I don't believe this is a factor of the Motronic system. I do not have any issues with weather changes. I believe one of the keys is to flatten the chip correction for temps, and let the PB do it.


Rogue

Jake951

Just out of curiosity, what are the specific technical reasons for the issues with MAP and the Motronic system?

Jake951

That's the problem with the Link MAP piggyback. It doesn't do temperature correction. Although there was a temperature sensor in the intake with the MAP, the Link PB doesn't use the temperature information