billindenver

Ok, so I pulled the head today because I'm still losing coolant. Turns out the new ARP head studs must have stretched...they were 90 degrees from 65lbs. That would do it. I'm sure they will be fine after this pull (I'll retorque them a few times before sealing it up).

Anyway, when pulling the nuts off Sharky's intake and exhaust studs the nut has more bite on the stud than the stud has on the head...so out of the 16 studs, 3 of them remained in the head..the rest came out like bolts. Am I supposed to Loctite these in? I'm not at all sure I could have removed the headers with the studs in though, as I think they are to long. I'm reluctant to loctite them in because getting them out in order to remove the headers and taking the intake ones out in order to torque the head bolts might be pretty tough with a small allen if loctited in....has anyone else experienced this?

87944turbo

I had the same experience with the intake studs. I used blue loctite on them and found I could remove the nuts (copper ones from Paragon) and they would stay in place. Later when I had to pull the studs for a head retourque, I had no problem removing them with just an allen wrench. They were loctited in the car for probably a month or so. HTH.

KuHL 951

In light of your leak, what would your torqing recommendation be for others installing the ARP studs for the first time? Retorqing after a few heat cycles would be a PIA. Yours have been in since last winter right?

billindenver

Since this winter actually....so only a few months. I would torque them in the typical 25, 45, 65 manner on a used head gasket...let them sit overnight. Completely loosen and retorque in same manner, sit overnight. Do so a third time with the new headgasket, sit overnight...retorque and call it good. I believe I only did it once and that may be why they stretched a bit.

I am by no means an expert on ARP head studs so if others have better info I will certainly welcome it.

tyro

I'm in the same boat, Bill.

Started to lose coolant after a track session. Coolant level was stable for a few weeks, but began dropping again the other day.

Tied a catch can on the overflow, voila! Coolant after some spirited running.

ARP studs tightened to EBS' spec (65ftlb) and a new wide fire ring gasket.

I doubt it's my cap, but no reason to start with the tough stuff..

billindenver

Jess, were those ARP's new? Did you do the torque, let sit, loosen and retorque proceedure? To be honest, I'm not entire certain I did. I know I did on the rod bolts, but can't recall on the head studs. This had better be a one time problem, as I never had a problem with the stock studs loosening up. During this engine build, every stud I put in that wasn't stock has caused me difficulty. Not very pleased with the non-stock hardware at this point. The ARP's could have been my fault for not stretching them properly I suppose....I'll take the hit on that, but it better not happen again. I pulled my head in about 2 hours, but it isn't my favorite thing to do on a weekend.

tyro

Yes, brand new from EBS.

Installed to 73mm from deck with red loctite in the block (block and head were milled flat too).

Followed instructions thoroughly, torque following the factory pattern to 65 ft-lb., let sit overnight. Loosen 180 degrees, retorque using pattern to 65ft-lb again.

Don't recall the exact procedure, I think there may have been steps to the final value of 65ft-lb.

All data I've found suggests that the ARP fasteners are not stretch type (Torque to yield)

Damn thing. ARP says no re-torque is necessary. Think I'll find a cometic MLS gasket.

attyjeff

Bill, think it might have to do the high boost that you run 20+.........just messing,

billindenver

Well we are in exactly the same boat then. My block and head were milled flat as well, new ARP's from EBS (to avoid future problems if that makes any sense at all). Started losing coolant on the track, then found still loosing coolant on spirited street driving. I think pressurizing the coolant was what took out my radiator (or sped up its impending demise more likely). I know when I was pulling the head I checked the torque on the nuts. Every one of them required 90 degrees before popping off at 65 ftlbs. Sure sounds like stretch to me....especially if we are both seeing the same thing. I don't think it was the headgasket that caused the problem.

billindenver

I've been running 22psi for 10 years without difficulty. Since my motor is still breaking in, I have not turned it past 19ish at present. If it was a boost related problem, the headgasket would be blown, which it's not. I think the studs simply stretched though I remain open minded.

tyro

Bill-

No coolant or oil mix here, only cylinder pressure getting into the water jacket.

At the time I noticed coolant levels dropping, I was running 97 octane and AFRs were fine all day at 15psi boost with a K26/6.

I'm going to try a re-torque. Sucks a$$ having to get all the bits off the top of the engine, belts and all just to tighten a couple nuts.

billindenver

Well, now that the seal is broken between gasket and head/block...not sure I would suggest only retorquing. I would put in a new HG as well. I know it's a pain, but I don't think I would trust the HG to seal up again. Maybe someone who has done so will chime in and tell us if it worked or not.

I called EBS to ask them about stretch and they said they have never seen this happen before. They suggested I treat them like Race Ware's and retorque after 1000 miles or so (street). That sucks something fierce.

BTW, mine is acting exactly like yours. No coolant in oil or oil in coolant but pressurized coolant is leaving the tank. Cap is pretty new and holding good pressure. HG is not blown, but you can see where the combustion is leaving the cylinder as it has bowed/hardened the HG material in that section (#2). I'm going to blame it on stretch until it happens again and the torque hasn't changed. Here is to hoping it's only an initial stretch...

KuHL 951

Bill do you mind if I post this in a separate thread concerning ARP torque procedures? I think many knowledgeable people here might miss it in an exhaust stud thread. I absolutely do not want this to happen to me and retorquing after 1000 miles is out of the question on these motors AFAIK. I'll send the ARP's back and use the stockers before I'll pull the damn tower and belts again.

billindenver

Sure, I'll post it up under a different heading. I would love to know what people are finding with their ARP's

tyro

You're right, once going as far as getting the cam housing off, may as well pull the head.

Then, install a steam vent kit since I didn't do that the first time.

I would also like to know whether a re-torque might do the trick..