Wow that sounds great. Hey Tim, have you used these before any 2.5Ls or 3.0Ls? I know they are brand new, but I'm still curious as to how they have performed for you.



George: I see you have some nice shiny parts, like the intake. So, are you going to coat the headers and have Tim do them too?

 

Rolex,

Tim is having the headers coated. He recently finished them. Tim is doing everything but the engine build. My experience with one off cars like this is to find someone that knows more than you do, has the experience, and will be avialable for issues down the road when something comes up that you just can't figure out. Tim will know this car as well as one of his own when he is done. This makes troubleshooting MUCH easier. Also, he is usually coming up with better ways to do things and I'll be one of the folks on his list to call.

Tim has not used the Turbonetics GTK turbos on our cars yet. This will be the first one. He has used the full garrett turbos with a very similar ceramic bearings and such from Turbonetics. This turbo is their newest line of these older designs. Some of these older turbos will be available for upgrade to the GTK series. Some of the differences is that they have new Map Enhancement Porting. This allows the compressor wheel to operate at it's maxmum efficiency across a larger rpm range. This also reduces surge. They state that this in conjunction with their new compressor wheels allows huge volumes of air at high pressure at much cooler intake temps. These turbos were Voted "International Best New Product" at the 2006 SEMA show, a select group of magazine editors and publishers from around the globe, awarded the GT-K Turbo with 5 of the innaugural prizes.


The new tall tip wheels on the exhaust side lower backpressure. They black chrome perma coat in the turbo provides greater heat reflection. The housing uses ceramic coating to heep exhaust gas energy inside of the housing for faster response.

I was willing to utilize this technology knowing that Tims install and fab work would be excellent. We have to install a smaller alternator to clear the new 4" inlet pipe to the turbo. This with Tim's intake, ceramic coated downpipe and headers, front mounted intercooler, external oil cooler, and huge alum radiator with much larger fans should allow a good beating and consistent power by keeping temps under control. We are also deleting the thermostat.

We are really hoping to see very good results from this project. I love this stuff when it works as well as it looks. I am not looking for top dog dyno numbers. My goal here is consistent power under extreme conditions and good boost response by 3K.

George

 

Fantastic update George! It certainly looks like you're covering all the bases and I have to admit the spec and tricks on that turbocharger make the knees go weak. How much longer until the whole thing is ready?

 

I'll be in San Diego the first or second week of October. Sooner if that motor gets to Tim this week!

George

 

What made you decide to run the 650 over the 550? Is there any spool time difference between them?

 

We were going to go with a full T4 and the 550 has a T3 hotside.The 650 has the T4 hotside. It made it an easy decision.

 

Thanks Tim and George for all that information you guys have provided. I am sure a lot of us are curious to hear how this new turbo will perform in conjunction with the other mods on George's car. And George, maybe I missed the posting on this, but what bigger radiator are you going to be using and with fans? Is it a Griffin one?

 

This engine will be a total beast. Hope to see a dyno with at least 20 psi!
What's the specs of the valvetrain and cam?

 

I see, with the 3.0 and big valves, headers and larger exhaust, you would think there shouldn't be any appreciable increase in lag. I'm really interested in seeing how this turbo performs.

 

What's the specs of the valvetrain and cam?

Stock reground 2.7 NA cam. Stock TS exhaust valves with 48mm intake.

George

 

George, what is the RPM range you are going to use this car for? I read the thread, but, are you looking for something in the 3.5-7K range or what? Are you going to use the stock cam as a base line, and then consider another one, or, just stick with that one?

 

I vote for 8k, at least. Imagine: full boost from ~3k all the way to 8k redline. Beautiful. By the way it sounds, that motor'll handle that pretty well.

 

George has been known to run alot more boost then that

 

If I recall correctly, he ran 25 PSI on his old 2.5, which yielded him 427 RWHP? He can correct me if I am wrong here. George, are you a boost junkie?

 

I've had two of these cars, both 89's and both modified. I've driven both 3.0 16V turbos and 8V turbos with STOCK rev limits. I liked the 8V motor better for street/track. That 16V motor was awesome, but it had a stock rev limit. The power came on at 4500, but the powerband was shorter. The 8V car came on much sooner, had more tq and just felt better to me. These were both PowerHaus cars with exact same turbos and same builder.

Out of my two 951 cars, the first made 330whp and 340tq. The dyno showed max tq by 3500rpm on the 330whp car. This was with a very good K27 turbo. The 430whp car didn't have max tq till 5K! The 330whp car felt faster and when you hit the gas at 3K there was NO lag. The car just jumped right now. The second car at 3K had lag and didn't come on hard till 4K. I HATED this for what I was using the car for. On a short track while in second in a tight corner, the car was way too laggy. The 330hp car would have been faster in this situation. The 2.5 cars are faster with smaller turbos in the conditions I like to drive.

Anything above 450 to 500 wt can't really be used in MY car as it's setup and for what I will be using it for. This is a street/track car in that order. Being able to have 400whp at 13psi will be fun for the street and the motor will just be jogging along. I'll post dyno sheets and such when things are sorted out.

The car will have a 7K rev limit, but will have great power from 3K on at moderate boost levels. If I wanted a 600whp car, the turbo would have to be bigger, which means LAG. If I can create great power from 3K to 7K, I don't need to have a higher rev limit.

If the power didn't come on till 4K, I would want an 8K rev limit. I like the broad powerband of a big motor, but I love the rush of a turbo motor. Don't we all love the rush of the boost coming on and just nailing you in the lower back? I simply want both with this motor. I have NEVER felt this with any NA car.

The car will be much more reliable with a lower rev limit and I will have power from 3K to 7K. To have a safe 8K redline, I have to open my wallet even more. This head will run higher rpm than 7K, but at the expense of reliability. This 8V head probably can't flow enough to contunue making more power above 6800rpm. This is where a major head design comes into place. The 16V head would be the better choice in this situation.

I'll see how things go with this setup. I know that this motor will be what I planned it to be.

Sorry for the long post. I get typing and this happens.

George