m42racer

Today I was present during some dyno testing where a 944 engine was tested without a Head Gasket. This development is a carry over from their Subaru Rally engine program. It was always considered as the second phase of the whole closed Deck program.

The engine today was run normally aspirated up to 8000 RPM without any issues. It was to be run in the dyno auto mode all night and then changed over and run again under boost.

This whole development is now been done for many different high boosted engines. It has been used in their Subaru engines for sometime without any problems. No Gasket failures, less Head movement, less clamping force required and therefore less distorsion in the head and block. The bores are keep round and straight and the ring seal goes up and the Torque loss is lowered.

The only issue is the Piston. It will require a larger Dish if the current CR is to be held and a shorter Comp Height.

I have no photos as of yet, but I know as soon as the testing is over and this is all made available, the person choosen by PD to sell the 944 parts etc will make all info and photos available. From what I am told, all of the 944 parts and services will now be avialable through him. He knows 944's far better than PD, and therfore will offer a greater customer service.

High boost and high power is not going to be a problem. If you can fuel it without any problems and run high octane fuel, I see no reason why very large HP numbers cannot be achieved. Remember the person doing and leading all of this was around 1500Hp 4 Cylinder 1500cc Turbo engines in the 80"s.

TRP951

subscribed to the thread

pozican

0.0

Porschefile

Could you tell us who this person is, who to contact, etc or are they kind of keeping things quiet until they are finished with everything? I remember you mentioning that PD now makes a deck plate for these motors among many other cool things. I've been wanting to do a weld in deck plate to convert to closed block, and it sounds like they make a few other cool things I might be interested in.

The "no headgasket" thing sounds interesting but, I'll remain skeptical. Quite a few models of the 911 have been "headgasketless" with much success for decades, even some of the Turbos. Though, from what I remember I believe much of the race-oriented high hp turbocharged stuff (934/935/956/962/etc)used things like niresist sealing rings so they weren't completely gasketless.

Less clamping force sounds nice, of course as long as you can still maintain sufficient clamping force. Hehe, I remember talking to a few different 951 related retailers/builders that suggested that aftermarket studs require roughly 150-180lb/ft of torque. HA! WTF?! Maybe if you're trying to friction weld the friggin head to the block! Jesus. Consistant clamping force is the main thing I'd be looking for, and I'm sure metal to metal (regardless if it's gasketless or a metal HG) will be plenty better at it then a fiber gasket.

JET951

hey Travis,
porsche didnt need head gaskets for the 911 varient racers(even though they have so very little in common with a 911, it really shouldnt be connected) porsche realised to run high boost on these watercooled heads with air cooled barrels that they ended up welding the heads onto the barrels. they were not servicable but it didnt matter, they were race products, use them once...throw them away.
i personally cant see a headgasketless 944 engine working for very long, but humour me.
sean

Porschefile

Hey Sean! How's the beast coming along? Ah, damn, you got me. I keep forgetting about the watercooled head variants with welded heads. I should be ashamed as I've studied Porsche history religiously. My penance will be nine hundred and fifty one Hail Ferdinand's.

5speed300

It sounds neat, but what happens if you have a problem? ie: detonation or somethign of the sort. Then it would seem you have ruined a whole head and maybe the block as well?

m42racer

The head is still clamped to the block with the studs. As for the damage casued by detonation, the engine should be tuned correctly in the first place.

I have read the posts above and I ma a little amused by the comments. It appears from what is asked that you guy's do not know alot about engines and what is currently offered for other engines. Surely you do not think 944 Turbo engines are cutting edge technology. When I stated no Head gasket, there is no Head gasket, but there is a sealing system used. The Deck Plate allows this system to be used and no Head Gasket not used. The photos will show how this is all done. This is nothing new. PD have been doing this for many years for other engines. The reason for the testing is to ensure the same technology works. For those who are skeptical, I understand your fears. Head gaskets will still be made and sold for thse who do not have Deck Plates fitted and for those who still wish to use Head Gaskets. Gaskets are always the weak point and cause so many issues with Bore distorsion, shearing forces etc. High boosted engines really make these issues a major concern.

Duke

Very interesting stuff,
will we be seeing something like this?

JET951

hey all you said is, no heaad gasket. if there is a sealing system used then i would refer that as a head gasket. the 911s at one stage had a sealing ring between the barrel and the block, that was also called the head gasket.

hosrom_951

If you install crush rings for the cylinders, then how do you ensure no leaks for the oil and water passages?

m42racer

No Head Gasket is used. The head is sealed by other means. Whatever you wish to call this, no Gasket which is currently used in the 944 Turbo engine that looks like a Head Gasket is used. I am not trying to be silly here. As soon as the testing os complete, the photos will be shown. Again, this is nothing new. Just new to the 944 Turbo world. As for water and oil leaks, so far none and I'm sure there will not be any.

The person who is going to offer all of this technology is here and is most probably waiting for the testing to be completed and will then offer this. I wish to inform what is coming. My whole intention for any of the parts that have been developed is to offer up new stuff for all. If you wish to know about any of this call PD and ask. I am sure they will tell you or the person on this board will help.

anders44

like duke posted, some of the high boost nuts use rings that blows out, (limmet as an example) I've put this as a subscription, interesting none the less.

new tech is always cool.

333pg333

'No head gasket' to me means metal to metal. What your describing has a type of crushed ring doesn't it? That to me is a gasket. Not trying to rain on your parade and if it works for a specific purpose then great, bring it on, just don't call it gasketless if it's not metal to metal.

special tool

M42 - what is the process of the sale of service.
Head and block shipment?