SoloRacer

Here's a pic of my FD for 9fitty1. My car is an R1 model and I'm also doing a motor swap on it - but staying in the rotary family by going with a 20b. I'm going to store the original 13b engine just in case I decide to take it back to stock some day.

MPD47

Hardly a comparison.

I'm helping a friend finish up his swap right now and I garuntee you he could turn it around and sell it for $20k. You're talking about $60k in 951 mods vs maybe $20-25k in RX7/LS1 parts.

My buddy properly maintains his 13b, and had the engine professionally built, and is still constantly worried it's going to blow. I like pistons, not rotors on eccentrics.

SoloRacer

Right. Good luck with the sale. If you were honest about the swap you would have to say to convert an FD to LS1 would be the same cost as doing a 951. It's not a $25k swap done properly by a professional shop. These arguements have been had over and over again and the guys who have had it done have paid much more - especially when the cost of buying the car is included.

The reason your buddy is worried is either he doesn't trust the shops work or he doesn't understand the engine. Or it could be all the bad things his friends are saying or reading on the web that start with "well I saw" or "I heard from a guy". It's **** talk like that can get a guy worried. For the record I would trust my FD on a cross country trip more than I would my 951. The only reason I am converting is because I prefer the sound and torque that the 3 rotor will give me.

brent_strong

I'm in the process of swapping my FD (I'm the friend that Mike is talking about), and I can whole-heartedly recommend the swap. It's nice to be able to make 400+whp dead reliably and be confident in driving the car across the country.

I haven't seen many, if any, substantiated arguments as to why the LSx is inferior to the rotary, only sentimental arguments from rotary purists. I don't see any problem putting a great engine into a great chassis. Some people prefer to work with what they're given. I'd rather find the best "tool" for the job and use that.

If you're selling the engine in the car, I know someone who would be interested. If you need any advice or help with the swap, feel free to PM Mike (mpd47) for my contact details. I can give a pretty good overview of what is involved with a swap.

MPD47

Having a professional shop do a swap does not always mean it's done properly, neither does the fact that it was done in a garage mean it wasnt.

brent_strong

$20-25k is a very generous budget to work within to swap one of these cars. I'll have significantly under $15k in mine, all inclusive (chassis, engine, trans, Hinson kit...etc etc EVERY nut and bolt, storage, transport, shipping costs). I think you're taking a very slanted view on the swap. I understand it's not for everyone, but at least be realistic.

SoloRacer

What shop did it for you?

brent_strong

I don't have shops work on my cars. Until I can afford to spend $150+/hr on labor, all I'd get is half-assed work and attempted scams. I do my own work and I do it on my own schedule so it's right.

SoloRacer

Agreed. I have a friend who puts LS1's into 3 series BMW's and it works great. He says it's $30k to do the swap properly including a fresh rebuild of the LS1 engine. For the record I have no problem with engine swaps - hell I'm putting a rotary in my 914. I have no problem with the LS1. All I want to express is that the FD engine is not **** like you guys are making it out to be. Don't swap the engine because you fear it or don't understand it is what I am saying.

brent_strong

I can accept that, my reasons for the swap are mostly that I don't want to deal with the rotary quirkiness when, for similar money, I can have a well known and supported engine making great power and torque. I go for simplicity and value. I think the LS1 takes that hands-down.

tedesco

One of the big pros of the FD is its very well balanced chassis and its precise and responsive steering. The rotary sits low and a long way back in the chassis. It is small and light. How does that change when swapping to a LS engine? Can´realy belive that it stays like that.

brent_strong

Good question, it's always one of the first ones that people ask about the swap. Since the LS1 is all aluminum and an OHV engine, it's very very light for it's size. The rotary is relatively heavy for it's size, and in the FD, it had 2 turbos, a large cast manifold and a lot of other "crap" to weigh it down. Weight and weight balance is very nearly unchanged with the swap. I've seen some maintain the exact balance, once or two shift it more towards the rear (battery relocation, no PS/AC, etc), but most keep it about the same.

As far as where the weight sits vertically, think about a rotary vs an LS1. The rotary's mass is concentrated in it's center, around the e-shaft and then the end caps which are quite heavy. Compare this to the LS1 where the crank, cam and oiling system are all very low in the engine. I suspect the LS1 actually moves the CG lower in the car, but have no data to prove it.

As for how far back it sits, it's basically against the firewall. Removing the rotary allows you take take off a lot of front weight though, like oil coolers and the intercooler.

Just some food for thought, gotta run for now.

potent951turbo

I have seen these with Supra engines swapped into them. My friend also mentioned the other day that he saw one with an SR20DET in it.

Pile O Porsche

Putting a 20B into an FD, how cool! I didn't know 20B's were easily, or even managbly, swapable nowadays. I'm an FC fan, personally...Don't crucify me! Everyone always has a soft spot in their heart for their first car!
The rotary is always fun for the attention grabber factor; everyone wants to see it for it's novelty.
I do love my 951, but it's certainly much more pricey than the RX-7s that have been through the driveway. Maybe not as much as the LT1 swap into an FC about to happen out there now, but we'll see

ausgeflippt951

+1 ^^ throw a 20B in there and THEN turbo it. It'll be reliable and run like a bat outta hell...and sound oh so sweet.

Rotaries are not nearly as scary as everybody makes them out to seem. They've got like seven moving parts! They're unbelievably simple, and it's when people throw in the 3mm or larger apex seals that **** starts hitting the fan. I've built up three (two FC turbo II's and an FD V-cooler convert) and compared to our 951's, they're a cakewalk. Sure, they don't last as long and have no torque, but damn, their just oooozing with character.

I would still take my 951 over the FD, however. The 951 is much more aggressive and...has so much more German muscular goodness...but if I wanted another car, I'd be hard pressed to choose another one (maybe a stock Mk IV Supra TT). I say Good call on the FD, and don't swap in a piston engine.

The rotary's about finesse--it was styled by the same guy who did the 1st gen Miata.