Hi all

I'm planning to rebuild and modify my 951.

After the engine is going to be revised, I intend to gain some serious hp (around 350-380rwhp). What I'm still unsure about is what turbo to choose.
I have been asking John from Vitesse and Dave Lindsey. The Vitesse stage 3 seems to be a good turbo with very nice spoolup characteristics. On the other hand, I read and heard a lot of good stuff about the little bigger lindsey super 61.

I therefore wanted to ask if there is somebody on the forum who is running a Lindsey 61 with the webcam 274 and the lindsey downpipe on a properly running 2.5 litre engine with the other required mods.

I would be very interested in knowing at what rpm 1bar boost is made and what your driving impressions are. To me, hp numbers matter but also the power curve and that boost sets in quite early. I would be deceived to have a car which seems to be 'dead' below 3500 and only develops power from 4000rpm upwards...

I will be using the scivision maf and a set of 1.3bar chips, a ported head, modified intake, etc.

My car is going to be lightened and will be a daily driver and occasional trackday tool. That are the requirements that the engine also has to fit in...

Greetings from Switzerland

Beni

 

The S3 is not smaller! Since it provides great spoolup characteristics, it does not mean it's smaller or flows less. We have customers that switched to a S3 and they cannot believe the difference.
Good luck with your search.

 

Hi John,

I'm interested to know how this would compare to a 26/8 both in terms of where in the rev range it spools and what boost you could expect at what rpm.

What boost @ redline and what HP would you expect if correctly set up?

 

Beni: I don't know how many members are running anything other than stock cams at the moment which really narrows the field of users who might have exactly what you are looking for. Did you ask Lindsey Racing if they knew of a car with those modifications? Chances are they would be the most knowledgeable on what people are using.

 

I used to have a k26/8 and a k27/8 and can say that the Stage III is a much bigger turbo. Power and torque with the Stage III is much more linear and doesn't fall off like it does with the K26 or K27. Seat of the pants it's hard to tell because the K26/27 has a really sharp power rise when boost comes on that gives that push in the back we are all addicted to. The Vitesse turbo pulls more like an N/A car and didn't give me the same boost rush that the K26/27 did even though the car was accelerating harder. I'll have to see if I can find some of my dyno sheets with the k27/8.

 

Beni, I am running the Super 61 with a webcam 274. I also have the Lindsey stage 2 head, Lindsey 4" exhaust, and SFR 3" down pipe. The main component to all of this is that I'm running the Vitesse maf software and piggy back. John made a specific map for my webcam. Unless you do this, this cam will be awful for a daily driven. With the software I'm able to get a constant 14.7 afr at an idle of 1000 rpms.

As far as driving impressions go, the car is a complete beast. I've only had the car out twice now since putting everything in, but by the butt dyno I'd say it's at least 375hp if not more. I still need to do a bit of fine tuning, but right now the tires break loose in the first three gears with little effort. Needless to say the car is scary fast.

I don't think you can go wrong with either turbo that you decide on. As you can tell I run both companies products and am very happy with the support from Vitesse and Lindsey.

 

When I was looking at a Super 61 #8 hotside w/ a T-350 turbine wheel the comments here and elsewhere were 1-bar at 3700+ rpm on a 2.5L with stock down pipe. My discussions with a good tuner was that the WebCam pushes the spool up a bit higher than that but it was excellent for track use where you stay in a power band more. This wasn't what I was looking for in my street car so I'm probably dropping down a bit to a smaller Garrett T3 ball-bearing unit. The S61 will support some serious power but many people think it's a bit too big for a 2.5 street car, the LR Super 48 seems to be a better match. The VR Stage 3 is well known to spool much earlier than an S61 making it a very popular choice in the 'bigger' turbo category.

 

Thanks SoloRacer,

I do understand S3 is much bigger, hence my interest in where it spools and what it is ultimately capable of. Whilst your subjective comments are helpful, I would really appreciate some specifics, hence it would be great to see a dyno comparison to see where the losses and gains are.

Thanks again.

 

"Ultimitely capable of"?
It was ultimitely capable of 533 HP at the wheels on my setup.
405 at the wheels with stock head/exhaust/leaking stock headers (1 bar 3,200 RPM)
435 at the wheels with stock head/stock headers/Lindsey 3 inch (1 bar 3,300 RPM)
472 at the wheels with big valve head/ stock headers (1 bar 3,600 RPM)
533 at the wheels with big valve head/exhaust/stage 2 headers/wasted spark

All the above was datalogged, of course.
How's that?

 

so in other words the stg 2 header added 100hp? thats incredible. I guess once you free up the head the stock header becomes a BIG restriction

 

Pretty awesome...

What boost were you running and where in the rpm range were peak TQ and HP developed?

 

No, I edited it from my records.
Now its accurate.
I have changed things so many times, I can't recite from memory anymore.

 

It's important to note guys that ST's numbers were at high boost and running higher octane fuels. While they do indicate what power you can make with the Stage III turbo 350 rwhp is what John (Vitese) claims is realistic at boost levels and fuel that the majority of us will be using daily. ST didn't just slap the turbo on and make the power. There is a reason he's the "supa tuner"

 

Hello all

thank you for your answers.

I think that the rpm at which the 61 reaches the boost level of 1 bar is a lot higher than the S3 (3800 vs. 3200 rpm). To me, that makes a serious difference because I want to have fun with the 951 on the street, too. For a pure trackday tool that wouldn't be that bad...

Anyway, I wanted to check all possibilities and the Lindsey Super 61 seems to be a good turbocharger but probably not the best for my application...

So, I could imagine to combine the (in my opinion) best of both worlds (or even more worlds if also including the german stuff I ordered). What I'm a bit worried about is if everything is combineable?! especially the Turbo with special cam in combination with the MAF?!

If you guys don't mind, I would post a list of the LR, Vitesse and other parts I consider using for my project so everybody may comment on that.

I'm not in a hurry but I would like to know what to order and would be very disappointed if I spent money on something that does not satisfiy me.
I ain't got money to burn, but quality matters more than price to me.

Cheers

Beni

 

Wow thats a good spread. So since you are comparing them with out boost or octane listed does that mean they were all done on the same boost and octane? Or were the timing, octane, boost, and A/f different on each set up? Because if they were then is not quite fair to put all those numbers back to back as it makes each physical upgrade seem it does more than it really does. What boost and octane were run on each of those runs?

Interesting compairing these two turbos and your response. Lindsey Racings Super 61 is a 60-1 hifi compressor wheel and a T-350 turbine wheel, but they offer it with either the #8 or #10 hotside and to4b or to4e compressor housing. When you say the S3 is not smaller do you mean not smaller than the #8 or #10 hotside and the to4b or to4e? Or are you just refering to the CHRA? When you say not smaller do you mean the compressor wheel has a 61mm inducer as well or is it bigger? And does the S3 also have a tubine wheel the same size or larger than the t-350?

I have a similar set up which should help you make a choice. I have a 2.8L with a web 274 solid lifer cam, and a turbonetics 60-1 hifi. The exact specs of the turbo are to4e housing, 60-1 hifi comp. wheel, wet/ball bearing, T-350 turbine wheel, T4 .50a/r housing, lindsey racing 3" downpipe. It is the same comp wheel, comp. housing and turbine wheel as the lindsey turbo, but it has a much larger hot side housing. I make 15psi under 3000rpm and this is with the BIG T4 hot side, it also has the bigger to4e housing. My car is also not dyno tuned yet. So I would think that with a smaller hot side like the #8 the Lindsey turbo would be great on a 2.5L, it is also a great deal for a quality turbo. I also like my turbonetics turbo from Sped force racing, If I had a 2.5L I would use the same turbo but with a #10 turbine housing.