As many of you know I had a 87 951 until it was recently hit and totaled. Im obviously looking for another and I have come across a few enticing 86' models. I feel/know that our airbags, are not the best thing in the world but my parents think otherwise. Until 21 they say I need an airbag but I am trying to convince them that a street roll bar/cage is safer. Basically what is the cheapest way to make an 86' as safe or better than an airbag equipped 951. Here I mean like a simple street cage w/wo harness... Pros and Cons. Please post here so I can show them proof. Thanks.

 

a cage in a street car is dangerous. with out a helmet on if you have an accident and hit your head on the cage your outcome could look a lot worse.

although i remember seeing a release from porsche stating that any accident over 60km/h the airbags did very little in terms of safety. personally i think the 951s are very strong cars and perform better in comparison to some of todays more modern cars with airbags

 

Not to mention the possibilities of any issues that could arise from 20yr old airbags.

 

That's the question I'd have too. Anyone have an airbag deploy or fail to deploy lately in a 951?

 

I can personally attest to the robustness of the 951, having once been in a major accident -- and I walked away sore and dazed. But that's another story.

I agree with Jet that a roll cage may be more dangerous than you expect -- the point of a roll cage to reduce the chance of the passenger compartment collapsing -- like in a rollover or a tee-bone situation. Air bags will NOT help in either of those situations, but will prevent you from impailing yourself on the steering wheel/projecting through the windshield.

So, comparing air bags to a cage is comparing apples and oranges. I more fair question is: which is safer, air bags or 5 point harnesses (and a proper seat)? And even here there are pros and cons for both. Air bags are passive -- you don't have to do anything for them to provide you with protection. But harnesses require that you put them on and tighten them properly.

Another aspect is your liability if you have an accident with a passenger -- if you have harnesses, and the passenger doesn't use them properly, you're liable.

Does anyone have statistics on failure rates of old air bags? I have an uncle that 2 months ago was in a collision where someone pulled out in front of him while he was going about 60 mph. The air bags in his '89/'90'91 Acura (I don't remember the year, but it was the first year Acura offered them) performed flawlessly and probably saved his life -- at least prevented serious injury.

This is just a sample size of one -- so I'm currious if anyone else knows of news stories or real statistics.

 

By cage I mean like a roll bar in the back seat. not a full cage. I know our bags are not reliable, but im trying to find a way to make the car safer, becasue if i say well the bags dont work anyway then my parents will just say "then dont get one at all"
basicaly what can I use to argue

 

Redline 4-pt roll bar would probably be a good choice. It mounts completley behind the driver and passenger seat, so minimal, if any chance of your head hitting it in an accident. It will never be as good as driving around with a complete cage, helmet and a 5 or 6pt harness...but you dont have to worry about your head slamming into a steel bar in an accident.

http://www.homestead.com/redlinerenn...guardPage.html

 

The argument that a bolt in rollbar (Redline style) is as effective as the 87-89 airbags in our cars will be a hard one to win. One is geared more towards rollover situations while the other is for head on / rear end situations.
Try to find some documentation to show that the older airbags are more dangerous than good. Try stuff like this:
http://www.nsc.org/library/cristext.htm

 

The air bags did not deploy in my 88 Turbo S in a substantial impact into a guard rail. Go Figure.

 

I hate airbags, several of my family memebers have been in bad accidents - and the modded BMW e30 with no bags my sister was in when hit in the passenger door at 70 mph by an altima only caved in about 4 inches and broke the passenger seat mounts off - had I been in that seat I woul have been fine. My sister didn't have a scratch on her, no bruises, nothing. Stock belts and seats.

The lady and guy in the Altima had to be taken to the hospital and treated for neck injuries from the airbags.

Plus with most bags you'll always walk away with a broken nose, and if you ever drive with one hand at the 1200 position on the wheel, it'll break your arm and send it into your head. I'm not a fan.

 

Rollbar will only help in a roll, or maybe a side impact....

 

Airbag technology has come a long way since the 80's, but they still offer some protection. On the other hadn, there is alot you need to know about properly and safely setting up a harness system. They can be complicated and should really be done by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

Yes I forgot to add that a cage isn't really a great idea unless its just the rear portion of the car not passing the driver's seat. A well setup harness and single piece seat can keep you where you're supposed to be

Tell your parents if they really loved you they'd buy you a GT3 seat with 3" 6 point harness

 

I understand your goal to prove safety...... but an air-bag and a roll bar/cage - have completely different purposes and aspects of safety.

airbag reliability of this age is always unknown.

as mentioned by others - a full cage on the street it extremely unsafe. Far worse than nothing at all.
Rear mount 4 point bar is nice, but only really provides roll-over protection.

You could always lie about it having an airbag

nah not really - parents have a valid point. Modern cars have modern technology. Could always retrofit an 86 with an air-bag. Could be done, but don't know how involved. Better just get an 87 up
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EDIT:
"Tell your parents if they really loved you they'd buy you a GT3 seat with 3" 6 point harness "

you still have that sexy *** seat guns? Holy crap! how much again

 

"The air bags did not deploy in my 88 Turbo S in a substantial impact into a guard rail. Go Figure."

Lanny, the airbags would not deploy hitting a guard rail, they only deploy in a head on.

There was a late model vette who hit the center guard rail (in the median) lost control and slammed sideways into the bottom of an overpass. they had to pry the door off to get him out. his airbag was intact, because it was not a frontal collision.

then you have some fender bender at 20 mph and the airbag pops off!

so the air bags only go off in frontal collision. question is....what about side air bags? do they stay set and only go off when the primary airbags deploy, OR are they independent and could deploy in a side impact while the dash bags stay put?

in my 951, I disengaged them. the old bags have been proven to be too forceful, so all new cars have softer air bags. all. no new cars have the same system as the old 951, none.