Appropriate Price For A 89 944TS?
01-16-2007, 11:58 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 1,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Appropriate Price For A 89 944TS?
I'm always on the quest for a 944 turbo, most everytime something that i find for an ok price is quite far away, cali or florida or gorgia... well this car is about a minute away from my house and i've been driving past it for a while as its been sitting on the lot for about 6 months.
Here is the link to their site: http://autosofeurope.com/cgi-bin/adv...rnum=207136852
its a black and burgundy interior. the rear hatch carpet is not in good condition, but the rest of the interior is ok (i'm going to have to get better pics of the interior) the exterior is straight, with no dings, but not really taken care of either. but it does have turbo twist wheels with some good life on the tires. Car has 115k on the odo, i'm guessing that it hasn't broke. here are the pics.
Here is the link to their site: http://autosofeurope.com/cgi-bin/adv...rnum=207136852
its a black and burgundy interior. the rear hatch carpet is not in good condition, but the rest of the interior is ok (i'm going to have to get better pics of the interior) the exterior is straight, with no dings, but not really taken care of either. but it does have turbo twist wheels with some good life on the tires. Car has 115k on the odo, i'm guessing that it hasn't broke. here are the pics.
01-16-2007, 12:08 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it has good records, service, etc. I say go for it! I personally got tired of trying to find the perfect turbo for a steal, and just went and found a great car for a little more than the original budget (same range your in). You already know if this is a car your going to keep for a while, getting exactly what you want, S, Black paint, interior color, wheels, mods, etc. is going to make the price seem like a deal in the long run! If it is nice, and been sitting for 6 months I would offer 10k and just walk when you get the first no, just make sure you leave your phone number!
01-16-2007, 12:15 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 1,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i'll have to ask about that, i noticed it but didn't really think about it... although usually when these cars are hit on the rear with any kind of damage, they usually get "totalled" because thats all one piece of metal back there. i'll have to ask the salesman about that.
01-16-2007, 01:03 PM
#6
C'mon guys. Third party seller. No mention of records. Fishy story about wrong side logo...bad voodoo to have repairs by shop/person that doesn't even know where the logo should go. Car may have potential and be fairly clean, but the Turbo S spec doesn't do a thing to reduce the replacement costs of worn bits and needed labor. I'm gonna guess its overpriced at anything above $8K
01-16-2007, 01:11 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TheRealLefty
C'mon guys. Third party seller. No mention of records. Fishy story about wrong side logo...bad voodoo to have repairs by shop/person that doesn't even know where the logo should go. Car may have potential and be fairly clean, but the Turbo S spec doesn't do a thing to reduce the replacement costs of worn bits and needed labor. I'm gonna guess its overpriced at anything above $8K
Trending Topics
01-16-2007, 01:33 PM
#8
As Jon suggests, savvy 951 buyers must have financial work-ups flying by in a little CNN style scroll down one side of our brain when considering a car purchase.
Its the standard chalk talk. Minus $1,500 if no documented new clutch. Minus $700 for no documented timing belt job. Minus $500 for no fresh front struts, etc, etc. When the total reaches more than the difference between real value and asking price you have only two smart choices...dicker or walk.
Its the standard chalk talk. Minus $1,500 if no documented new clutch. Minus $700 for no documented timing belt job. Minus $500 for no fresh front struts, etc, etc. When the total reaches more than the difference between real value and asking price you have only two smart choices...dicker or walk.
01-16-2007, 03:43 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 1,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TheRealLefty
As Jon suggests, savvy 951 buyers must have financial work-ups flying by in a little CNN style scroll down one side of our brain when considering a car purchase.
Its the standard chalk talk. Minus $1,500 if no documented new clutch. Minus $700 for no documented timing belt job. Minus $500 for no fresh front struts, etc, etc. When the total reaches more than the difference between real value and asking price you have only two smart choices...dicker or walk.
Its the standard chalk talk. Minus $1,500 if no documented new clutch. Minus $700 for no documented timing belt job. Minus $500 for no fresh front struts, etc, etc. When the total reaches more than the difference between real value and asking price you have only two smart choices...dicker or walk.
01-17-2007, 06:02 AM
#10
Not to beat a dead horse, but this principle of "known maintenance deductions" is at the root of current fair market 944 pricing. There's no real upside collectible value for 944s like there is for 911s, but rather a stable range between, say $13K and $18K for good examples of stock or lightly modded cars. It is basic math to work backwards from this range to smartly purchase a 951 with known needs.
When a buyer and seller reach agreement on any 944/951 above this price it is usually because the buyer is willing to invest in documented performance above and beyond factory specs (and wants to save the time needed to make the mods himself) or the car is exceptionally original, is totally documented and the buyer is a collector.
This is very different from buying a 70's or 80's 911. Depending on the model, a buyer might pay a premium for a car that requires tons of known maintenance if the body and interior are good, complete and rust free, because the market will reward a quality restoration or resto mod with a collectible resale price. The difference between a well restored 911SC and a tired but clean one can be as high as $25-30K, giving the buyer some equity incentive to pay a little more for the car that catches his/her eye, even if it sits in a big puddle of vital fluids under a dustry tarp in somebody's wood shed.
Since no such market exists for water coolers and the cars remain reasonably plentiful there is little reason to overlook $3 to $5K in mechanical refurb when negotiating to buy a 951. Values are stable so there's no excuse for being upside down in value on a 951 unless you enter that range because of your upgrades.
I suppose "street cred", or lack thereof, is the reason for this limit on water cooler values...but, interestingly, there seems to be less of that at the track. Well prepped 951s are respected, noticed and desired by their peers and competitiors. It's hard to be a snobby tail dragger when you've just pulled in from a DE session or a club race in which some wild weasel 914-6 and a steroid injected 951 passed you twice in the session chasing each other
When a buyer and seller reach agreement on any 944/951 above this price it is usually because the buyer is willing to invest in documented performance above and beyond factory specs (and wants to save the time needed to make the mods himself) or the car is exceptionally original, is totally documented and the buyer is a collector.
This is very different from buying a 70's or 80's 911. Depending on the model, a buyer might pay a premium for a car that requires tons of known maintenance if the body and interior are good, complete and rust free, because the market will reward a quality restoration or resto mod with a collectible resale price. The difference between a well restored 911SC and a tired but clean one can be as high as $25-30K, giving the buyer some equity incentive to pay a little more for the car that catches his/her eye, even if it sits in a big puddle of vital fluids under a dustry tarp in somebody's wood shed.
Since no such market exists for water coolers and the cars remain reasonably plentiful there is little reason to overlook $3 to $5K in mechanical refurb when negotiating to buy a 951. Values are stable so there's no excuse for being upside down in value on a 951 unless you enter that range because of your upgrades.
I suppose "street cred", or lack thereof, is the reason for this limit on water cooler values...but, interestingly, there seems to be less of that at the track. Well prepped 951s are respected, noticed and desired by their peers and competitiors. It's hard to be a snobby tail dragger when you've just pulled in from a DE session or a club race in which some wild weasel 914-6 and a steroid injected 951 passed you twice in the session chasing each other
01-17-2007, 10:33 AM
#11
This car was discussed a bit on the Rennlist email list around Christmas time. One of the guys went a took a look at the car and the consensus was that there a more than a few unanswered questions about this car, and $8k would be absolute top dollar for it, and most likely, thats too much. If I recall correctly, the odometer wasn't working on the car and it had oil leaks, mystery body work, etc, plus no records.
Regards,
Regards,
01-17-2007, 10:53 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 1,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oh really? and i'm guessing that the shop wasn't willing to lower in price? i hope that no one gets taken advantage of on this car then. thanks for the info... i guess i'm doomed to just drive by it...lol
01-17-2007, 11:02 AM
#13
Better to drive by it than have it draining down your bank account with a direct feed to the garage from your wallet
Patience, grasshoppah, the car of your dreams doesn't always find you, sometimes it is better if you find it. And, oh yeah, man who lives in glass house should dress in basement and a bird in hand gathers no moss.
Patience, grasshoppah, the car of your dreams doesn't always find you, sometimes it is better if you find it. And, oh yeah, man who lives in glass house should dress in basement and a bird in hand gathers no moss.
01-17-2007, 11:08 AM
#14
The broken batwing is usually a good sign that the car didn't lead a really sheltered life. lol
Drive by, you'll find the right one soon enough!
Regards,
Drive by, you'll find the right one soon enough!
Regards,
01-17-2007, 11:09 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 1,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TheRealLefty
Better to drive by it than have it draining down your bank account with a direct feed to the garage from your wallet
Patience, grasshoppah, the car of your dreams doesn't always find you, sometimes it is better if you find it. And, oh yeah, man who lives in glass house should dress in basement and a bird in hand gathers no moss.
It's hard to be a snobby tail dragger when you've just pulled in from a DE session or a club race in which some wild weasel 914-6 and a steroid injected 951 passed you twice in the session chasing each other
Patience, grasshoppah, the car of your dreams doesn't always find you, sometimes it is better if you find it. And, oh yeah, man who lives in glass house should dress in basement and a bird in hand gathers no moss.
It's hard to be a snobby tail dragger when you've just pulled in from a DE session or a club race in which some wild weasel 914-6 and a steroid injected 951 passed you twice in the session chasing each other