Ayrton Senna nsx in Suzuka
12-09-2006, 02:55 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by rage2
Sweet, finally someone that understands! I've been saying forever that Schumacher's legacy is pretty much from superior equipment. Hell, the Ferraris are so good that guys like Fillipe and Rubens can win races driving with one hand (only when Schumacher has equipment problems). He gets crappy drivers as teammates, making him the most overrated driver of the century.
Smooth == consistency.
Agressive == fast.
Now If you can be agressive AND consistent...
.
Reminds me of the "Days of Thunder" test that I did with an instructor a few years ago. I had GPS telemetry equipment in my car so I can do laptimes, sector times, and even find entry speed, apex speed, exit speed for each corner. I was told by instructors that I was way too agressive and overdrove the car (I heavily trail brake into each corner, and very agressive with throttle at exit, and very agressive with steering during turn-in). So try a 5 laps my way, then try 5 laps his way. Even though the smooth laps I had hotter and grippier tires, AND the instructor betting me $20 that he felt the smooth laps were faster after all the laps were complete with him riding as a passenger, my slowest agressive lap was a full 2/3 of a second faster than my fastest smooth lap. All together, I cut close to 5 seconds off the total laptimes.
For the curious, the agressive laps I had higher entry speed before the apex, same speed at the apex, and higher top speed for every straightaway after a corner. The only downside was I was well into 5-figures a year for tires.
Smooth == consistency.
Agressive == fast.
Now If you can be agressive AND consistent...
.Reminds me of the "Days of Thunder" test that I did with an instructor a few years ago. I had GPS telemetry equipment in my car so I can do laptimes, sector times, and even find entry speed, apex speed, exit speed for each corner. I was told by instructors that I was way too agressive and overdrove the car (I heavily trail brake into each corner, and very agressive with throttle at exit, and very agressive with steering during turn-in). So try a 5 laps my way, then try 5 laps his way. Even though the smooth laps I had hotter and grippier tires, AND the instructor betting me $20 that he felt the smooth laps were faster after all the laps were complete with him riding as a passenger, my slowest agressive lap was a full 2/3 of a second faster than my fastest smooth lap. All together, I cut close to 5 seconds off the total laptimes.
For the curious, the agressive laps I had higher entry speed before the apex, same speed at the apex, and higher top speed for every straightaway after a corner. The only downside was I was well into 5-figures a year for tires
.Faster == Faster!
5 figure$ a year?!? Holy Hoosier Batman!
12-09-2006, 03:02 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by pk951
Invincible grooves, just kidding probably a good sence of the limits of adhesiven inthe rain, some guys just have a antural talent everybody else is playing catch up.
I loved the video but was surprised that Senna didn't left foot brake either. By the way were those NSX's meant to be stock? If so not only did it seem very quick but it also had a better engine note than I can remember. Sounded damn good.
12-09-2006, 03:21 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by TheRealLefty
Schumie did not have the measure of Aryton when they were on the track together, but he did not have an equal car on most of those days.
Senna won 5 races and Schumi won 1. Senna was a step above Schumi at this point in their careers, but you could definately see the potential Schumi had by his performance against superior cars when drove for Jordan.
12-09-2006, 08:29 PM
#35
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A was an avid follower of Alex Zanardi when he was driving Champ cars. What a great guy. However, in F1 he just couldn't seem keep his car on the track. It was kind of funny when he asked if he could do victory donuts in F1. From what i've heard about him after his accident, he is just an amazing person.
12-10-2006, 05:08 AM
#36
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Senna was great in the rain. Fittipaldi the elder was also recognized for being good in the slop, but from all accounts, the all-time "rainmeister" was/is Jackie Ickx.
Ickx is probably getting the short end of the stick among all-time driver lists because he never really nailed F1. Yes, he drove for Ferrari in F1, but never at exactly the right time. His endurance racing sports car career, however, is equalled only by frequent co-driver Derek Bell and perhaps by a couple of the current Audi LeMans stable. IIRC, Ickx also had a hand in the thrilling 1969 LeMans finish, the closest ever. I'll do a little Googling and see if I can find a link about that race....
Ickx is probably getting the short end of the stick among all-time driver lists because he never really nailed F1. Yes, he drove for Ferrari in F1, but never at exactly the right time. His endurance racing sports car career, however, is equalled only by frequent co-driver Derek Bell and perhaps by a couple of the current Audi LeMans stable. IIRC, Ickx also had a hand in the thrilling 1969 LeMans finish, the closest ever. I'll do a little Googling and see if I can find a link about that race....
12-10-2006, 05:11 AM
#37
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Here 'tis. Found a narrative at the first listed link
http://www.jacky-ickx-fan.net/englis...cles.php?id=39
http://www.jacky-ickx-fan.net/englis...cles.php?id=39
12-10-2006, 10:44 AM
#38
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F1 Web Site
For all of those interested in a summary write-up of some of the best F1 Champions in the world and want to see their "stats" too, I would recommend you visit the site below.
Let the debating begin, this should be interesting....
http://www.formula1.com/archive/halloffame
Let the debating begin, this should be interesting....
http://www.formula1.com/archive/halloffame
12-10-2006, 12:59 PM
#39
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12-10-2006, 07:31 PM
#42
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He was great in his time late, fiftys I believe I would say yes he was one of the greats. Different cars a total different era ,a lot less grip they would slide more in those days. But it took how many years to beat his record of 5 world titles. You beat his number wins?
12-10-2006, 08:35 PM
#43
12-10-2006, 11:52 PM
#44
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I have to fully disagree with statements made on page 1 regarding Senna vs. Schuey.
*Senna WAS an *******. He was a great driver, but he drove like an *******, and commented like a hothead... and vice versa. Look at the 1990 series clincher when Senna drove Prost off the track to take the title, for example. Schumacher is always first to complement his competitors in the post-race interviews, on the other hand. He's a class act.
*Schuey did NOT have the superior every year of his domination: case and point, his first two championships with Benneton. Also, the Ferrari's of 2000-2004 had superior chassis development than the competition, but it was a well known fact that BMW outpowered them just about every one of those years!
*Look at the track record of their days together... Schuey wasn't exactly getting his butt handed to him by Senna, who was in the superior car.
*Schumacher's win ratio is only second to the classic Fangio... who raced 1/5 as many races!
Here are a couple M. Schumacher statistics for you all to consider.... just a small percentage of the records he holds:
*Most world titles: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
*Most consecutive titles: 5 (2000-2004)
*Most wins: 91
*Most wins in a single season: 13 (2004)
*Most consecutive wins in single season: 7 (2004)
*Most wins at the same race: 8 (French GP)
And that win-ratio??
1. Fangio 24/51 47%
2. M.Schumacher 91/250 36%
3. Clark 25/72 35%
Michael's wet-weather driving was truely a feat to see in person... awe inspiring to see him jump 7 places to take the lead in a matter of single-digit laps in the USGP I saw.
Yeah... Michael Schumacher "just got lucky."
*Senna WAS an *******. He was a great driver, but he drove like an *******, and commented like a hothead... and vice versa. Look at the 1990 series clincher when Senna drove Prost off the track to take the title, for example. Schumacher is always first to complement his competitors in the post-race interviews, on the other hand. He's a class act.
*Schuey did NOT have the superior every year of his domination: case and point, his first two championships with Benneton. Also, the Ferrari's of 2000-2004 had superior chassis development than the competition, but it was a well known fact that BMW outpowered them just about every one of those years!
*Look at the track record of their days together... Schuey wasn't exactly getting his butt handed to him by Senna, who was in the superior car.
*Schumacher's win ratio is only second to the classic Fangio... who raced 1/5 as many races!
Here are a couple M. Schumacher statistics for you all to consider.... just a small percentage of the records he holds:
*Most world titles: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
*Most consecutive titles: 5 (2000-2004)
*Most wins: 91
*Most wins in a single season: 13 (2004)
*Most consecutive wins in single season: 7 (2004)
*Most wins at the same race: 8 (French GP)
And that win-ratio??
1. Fangio 24/51 47%
2. M.Schumacher 91/250 36%
3. Clark 25/72 35%
Michael's wet-weather driving was truely a feat to see in person... awe inspiring to see him jump 7 places to take the lead in a matter of single-digit laps in the USGP I saw.
Yeah... Michael Schumacher "just got lucky."
12-11-2006, 03:41 AM
#45
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I see some Canadians are still sore that their hero JV got kicked out TWICE from a team, barely outdid Panis, embarassed by Button and totally destroyed/replaced by a rookie in the end and struggled with backmarkers in the Championship winning Renault...........
Talking about a one hit wonder who only won with the best car , period, and then still was not able to close the deal for the WC until the last race.
MS most overrated driver of the decade? LOL, is that's why he passed JV like he was parked in the rain in the POS Ferrari in Portugal. 96 ? Or lapped almost 10-30 sec faster in the rain again in Spa 98 than anyone else until DC took him out?
But the true idiots must be Ferrari, when instead to pay MS ungodly sums of money they could have just hired a jockey from the streets to bring home the bacon in their "even a monkey could win " car.
Talking about a one hit wonder who only won with the best car , period, and then still was not able to close the deal for the WC until the last race.
MS most overrated driver of the decade? LOL, is that's why he passed JV like he was parked in the rain in the POS Ferrari in Portugal. 96 ? Or lapped almost 10-30 sec faster in the rain again in Spa 98 than anyone else until DC took him out?
But the true idiots must be Ferrari, when instead to pay MS ungodly sums of money they could have just hired a jockey from the streets to bring home the bacon in their "even a monkey could win " car.