SamGrant951

I got curious, so I started searching...

"Ferrari test driver Nicola Larini extensively tested the first car built on Ferrari's private Fiorano test track in September of 1996. The F50 GT's out of the box pace was quite impressive, with Larini clocking faster lap times than the 333 SP prototype racer. This has however remained as the F50 GTs sole career highlight, as Ferrari pulled the plug on the project soon after the first tests were completed.

It is not entirely clear why Ferrari backed out of the project, but it was most likely a combination of factors. Most of Ferrari's resources were spent on winning the Formula 1 World Championship, leaving little for the further development of the F50 GT. A slight change in the rules signaled the arrival of the purpose built racers from Porsche, Mercedes Benz and Toyota meant that a lot more resources would have been required to get the F50 GT competitive.

The sole completed car was sold to an American collector and two more were constructed for two prominent Ferrari clients. All three cars were sold under the condition that they were never to be raced in anger. Three further tubs were constructed, but according to Ferrari these were later destroyed."

RolexNJ

Sam my friend, Bravo to you! Excellent research. My hat is off to you. The bottom line why the plug was pulled though was really two fold. One, Ferrari historically has never been a company to be into multiple "top" level forms of racing at the same time - not their style. As you know, their primary concern has been has been F1, even before the Nikki Lauda right up to 1950. In 1995, even though the 333SP wasn't a factory car per se, it was 100% Ferrari backed. This is a fact, not fiction my friend. Ferrari wanted to focus on F1, but also attempted to try the new series of IMSA open-**** pit at that time, which succeeded the IMSA GTP Protype that I was in. However, Ferrari's results (privateer) weren't earth shattering, to say the least. Even when the famous Max Pappis, who I know, was very competitive for a while, it wasn't enough to satisfy Ferrari at Corporate. Given their uncertainty with IMSA, that blog about them not wanting to invest money is off-base, Ferrari pulled the plug with the 333SP, and concurrently decided that the GT50 F1 project wasn't the direction they wanted to go. So yes, 3 of these cars were built with the "orginal" intent not be to raced in the series, as you read. One of which I saw and sat in personally, and two others as far as I know went abroad. So that's what happened to that stunning limited production car. I have a few pics I may post if I can find.

hosrom_951

ooooooooooookay.................

Nice to see how a wicked dyno video, turns out to be a Ferrari debat



*kidding*

RolexNJ

Sorry for the OT Hos!!

hosrom_951

don't be, i like it, i really like it

Most of us have been here for a while.....and i just love seeing how you and tool go at each other

RolexNJ

Me and the Tool? Oh wait and see, I'm gonna kill him bad one of these day. He makes all these promises of hitting of hitting 600 RWHP by the end of the year. And I know he isn't doing squat to get there too. By the time he gets that car to hit 600, Defastest will already reclaim his throne again!

And as for me, I need to post more so I can catch up to you. It make take me 20 years, but I'll catch up.

special tool

No - the ONLY time you get tire slippage on the dyno is when you WANT it - to show off, by not properly tightening the straps.
This has happened to me at only 500 FT/LBS torque - we simply re-tightened.

That ex-vit-termini-verga guy loves to pull this stunt with the Skylines to impress all the Honda children.

Porschefile

Ooopps, I screwed up. John Carmack's F40 is only lightly modded. I was thinking of his Testarossa when I posted that. His Testarossa was Norwood built and puts out 1000rwhp.

Regardless of what anyone says, that F40 is most definitely not stock.

Hey Tool, so now you are talking down about the Exvitermini guy??? The guy ran a best of 8.27 at 162mph in the 1/4mi and makes ~1350hp plus there are vids on his website to prove what it does. He has done and accomplished more with his drivetrain then you have or ever will, so have some respect and don't talk about him like he's a scam artist.

Rolex, the F50 GT1 was created to run in the '95-'96 Lemans, however Ferrari ended the program before it begun, and after the cars had been built. From what I remember, I think one of the 3 was totalled and only 2 remain in existence.

special tool

You've missed my point again, son.
I am trying to figure out if you are shallow, or obtuse.

I am not really fond of you to begin with. We ALL know that you bought Joe's Vitesse turbo STRICTLY to publicize the specs to get attention - just like something a little boy would do.
And you had the ***** to complain when you couldn't sell it.

Why don't YOU PESONALLY accomplish something with your own car????
Instead of riding everyone's nut sack, boy.

Reimu

Oh snap!

RolexNJ

Wow, well first off. Norwood's work is crap. One, I know a "major" vendor personally that had to do some minor work that any real mechanic would have done right the first time. Norwood put shrink wrap tape on the fuel rail to hold it in place and seal it? You've go to be kidding me, nice job. Two, being a FCA member, back in 1988 at Summit Point, I saw one of the first Twin Turbo Tesatrossa's built by Norwood, the owers crew could never get to run right even after 2 full days of wasting track time. Third, and much more important, I have purchased/owed (unfortunately so) a Ferrari engine with a Haltech system built for my race car. In short, the Ferrari "bomb" engine never ran right, and Norwood ran for the hills and was never found; nor cared to make good on that total piece of sh^&& he built me. That's from my "own" personal experience. I still have the engine here in boxes with parts in it. He builds one-off time bombs that done last. Any case, he built a 951 that was featured in Excellence of in April 2003. It never, ever, ever ran properly and was supposed to run a full reason. The engine had 10.1 CR, and he had the owner run the car @ 24 PSI, to make a whopping 540 RWHP. Since the car never ran right, just for a few laps, it left the hands of Nowrood, where it went to a real engine builder who wanted to rip it apart and start from the beginning.

Finally, you have no clue idea what you are talking about with the GT1. Sorry, wrong! It was never designed to go to LeMans. Ferrari was sticking with IMSA GTP, they werent going to go into WSC in Eurpoe. You clearly didn't read that detailed explanation I gave above, sorry Charlie.

lart951

Dude,you are getting in trouble, don't you know that pukephile and losermagnifico are the rennlist dynamic duo.

Porschefile

Jesus, not again. Sorry that I refuse to be a clueless vendor c*ck sheath as some here have become(sorry for the language, I'm angry). I always question authority and try to learn for myself rather then being told how it is. When did being educated become such a horrible thing? BTW, bought that turbo to use it and was unhappy with what I saw.

All of what you said is OT and has nothing to do with this post, so just let it go. Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. The tone of your post gave me the impression that you were considering the Exvitermini guy or his car to be a joke or ricer, etc etc which couldn't be farther from the truth. If I misunderstood, I apologize, but that's the way it sounded.

I'm trying to accomplish something with my car, though it's tough juggling 2 project cars (trying to fully build both at the same time) and a job that takes 150% of my time. I just purchased a Gt35r from Tim @ SFR, so I'm headed in the right direction.

Rolex, I didn't read your post before posting myself. You're right about the Gt1. I was basing my info off of some, now obviously, ill-informed websites. I entirely agree about the Norwood stuff. I've heard alot of horror stories. John Carmack has a Blog and he's even complained numerous times about how much trouble he's had with Norwood and keeping his cars together. I never said they were God's gift or anything.

Lart, you b@stard!

Laust Pedersen

Power is as relatively simple concept and is in the case of a dynamometer the mechanical energy delivered per time, which is fairly simple to measure. Unfortunately there are all the complicating external measurement factors such as compensation for barometric pressure, humidity, temperature, etc., then there are all the little “temporary tricks” to the car such as ice on the intercooler, strategically located fans, “alternative” fuels, advanced timing, thin oil, gear selected, etc. and lastly for those going for bragging rights only, there is the option of buying some extra horses through various adjustment factors.
When it comes to auto manufacturers, there is also the question of sampling techniques (which cars to select).
SAE has recognized all of this and has come up with a Power Certification program with associated standards, mentioned here: http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/details.htm

To answer your question which gear to use, then it is true that it does make a difference (if the resistance on the dyno isn’t adjusted for gear used) especially on our cars with a turbo lag.
For our cars 4th gear seems to be high enough to prevent slipping (except at very high torque). 5th gear could be used with the same or maybe slightly better results, but the dyno equipment will be spinning pretty fast, lots of stored energy, which in case of failure could be quite nasty.

As ST mentioned strapping the car down can eliminate slippage. For that purpose there should really be vertical straps, since the vertical force component is the one needed.
Judged by the rear end lift of the F40, there was not much of a vertical tie-down on that car, hence the need for a higher gear.

Laust

PS As to being technical: Throwing complicated formulae around will not help on the pitfalls above.

RolexNJ

Not a problem at all. Just being a total Ferrari buff since I'm 12, having driven practically every one since I'm 16 (one except a few super cars), and having bought an engine from Norwood, and a few stories I personally know about him; it's fair to say I have extensive knowledge on these cars, let alone this Dooms Day Bonehead. But whatever, we're here to have fun.

Good luck with the turbo from Tim too. He is an "awesome" fabricator and is currently making my Stage 2 968 Headers and SFR Intake too.