Driftomagnifico

Gotta love mystery turbo nonsense.

"Here's our proprietary mystery turbo! We won't tell you what it is because you are stupid!"

Or you can let people find out you just like to clip exhaust turbines with Precision cold sides. Nevermind the fact that the turbo will not produce to the compressors ability due to the vastly undersized hotside that got stuck on it so you can boast about spool-up to undereducated 944 owners. Then you can charge said owners more than what they can buy a superior turbo for.

Yes, more smoke in mirrors please. It's really helping out the community that's already 5 years behind.

theedge

Ok ok ok this dead horse has been beaten into a fine puree and spread on some goddamn toast. Please insert said toast and spread into mouth. Another thread doesnt need to be derailed.

Plenty of people have had excellent results with Vitesse turbos. Hes got a product that works. Im interested in numbers and details more so than a lot of people here probably, but im fine with going with what has proven sucess. Wont find me trying to install MID sleeves with my 1/2 horsepower drill press, hence my blocks going to Chris White for his experience, just like my turbo came from Vitesse.

sweanders

If you don't want Vitesse products or believe that there is anything special about it just buy something else. It really is as simple as that.

It's like saying that Coca-Cola is nothing special, it's just a soda right.. Try and call them for a recipe so that you can make your own.

tommo951

Hey Special Tool,

Why Popeye, have you joined the green lobby and running the car on Liquidised Spinach???
It sounds mightly impressive, would love to see some standing quarter and 0-100 times

Cheers
Tom

Porschefile

I wasted $1400 on my VR stage 4 turbo. I'm anything but happy. I'm going to go ahead and use it because I want to focus on my 911 at the moment, and a bolt-on turbo is easier at the moment. After careful examination of the turbo itself, what did I find? The turbo turned out to be a Precision Sc61 with a slightly smaller T31 turbine (probably from the Sc60 series) and a #8 Turbonetics replica housing, plus a clip of the turbine. Guess what the retail is on a Sc61? ~$850. John's retail? $1900 last I checked. Figure another ~$200-250 for the replica exhaust housing and then another ~$900 to clip the turbine and you have a magical pixy dust VR turbo! Please set me straight if I am wrong on these specs or the origins of the components for this turbo John. This is why I demand info on products I purchase because I want to be informed, and it is far too easy to take advantage of someone with a lack of info. I could have saved some money, bought a Gt35r and had a more responsive, superior turbo that would make more power. Is anyone listening to what I just said? John may not give the specs, but I'm telling you guys what it is from personal experience. Who's going to dispute this? I can tell you all from determining the specs myself that it is a mismatch and the turbine is too small for the compressor. Does anyone here even know the specs on their Vitesse turbo to even carry on an educated argument with me about it? I doubt it. Compressor - 61.4mm Inducer / 82mm Exducer, Turbine 57mm Inducer If anyone does want to argue, PM me.

Sweanders, I respect you man but, you are missing the point. I can size a proper turbo for my motor and my goals just fine. Like I said, it's not rocket science and there is a ton of free info out there on the net for anyone to figure out how to do so. Hell, Garrett has TONS of free info about turbo sizing on their site. I want to know what I'm purchasing before buying it so as to avoid hassles and making mistakes like the one I made. I'm sorry but I just don't blindly trust anyone because they have a few dyno sheets on their website. I'd be much more inclined to purchase from someone that will openly discuss info with me and let me make up my own mind. I find it funny that most of the non-Porsche aftermarket for turbos and turbo kits openly discusses turbo specs. Heck, look at the import industry, or any other turbo "tuner" car aftermarket. Most of them tend to focus on delivering a superior product and superior customer service as opposed to being secretive about sizing. It's completely understandable if it is an entirely custom proprietary piece created by the retailer. However in the Porsche community some try to make "sizing" some sort of proprietary intellectual property. Why the hell would I pay a $900 premium for an $800 turbo with a $200 housing and a turbine clip??? Jesus, our community is so behind the times. The SRT Neon aftermarket has far surpased us for God's sake! We should be striving for increasing the knowledge in our community rather then just complacently believing what we're told.

Please NO ONE respond to my post and direct any comments to my email or PM's. I don't want to derail this thread, but I have some points I feel need saying.

Jim, I'm very sorry to rant and get OT on your thread. I'm not doing this again. I'm just very disappointed with this community lately and feel I have to vent. I do respect you and what you are doing, so I hope I haven't come off as disrespecful or harsh. I really can't wait to see the numbers as you are one of the few pushing the limits with our cars. I wish more would, and maybe it would advance our aftermarket and community a bit more. Best of luck to you.

special tool

I can't tell anyone about the turbo - John has many hours testing turbos and this is how he buys food. Anyone who doesn't get this is just a little kid.

Tommo - I will make video - I ws making one in July .........and something bad happened (on video) because of my own stupidity.
Also - my next mod will probably be "Bluto"

Chris White

A little fuel for the turbo fire –

Seeing as the turbo is really just a couple of bucks in raw metal - the way I look at it is that you are really buying a piece of paper – you can either buy a piece of paper with lots of fancy specs, compressor charts, measurements, promises of how it will flow CFMs (without knowing the engine application) or you can buy a little piece of paper with dyno results and spool times.

I guess what amazes me the most is that you haven’t tried the Vitesse turbo and you are disappointed. Feel free to vent after you fire it up – I would (possibly) consider that ‘constructive’ criticism.

Oh, and since you mentioned that you can properly size turbos….431rwhp from a 3.4? A GT35R for a street 951? I’m sorry, I don’t see it.

Now back to Special’s cartoon based life!

fast951

PORSCHEFILE,

When did you ever purchase a turbo from me? NEVER!!!

Did you ever inquire about a turbo from me? NO!

Did you ever spend one $1 with me on a turbo? NO

Yet you bash me on a public forum!! What is your problem? Your posts and attitude have one single reason, it's to hurt my business! Why?

You claim to know about turbos, fantastic!!! What does it have to do with Vitesse?

We, Vitesse, have done our homework! Results speak louder than words! We deliver what we promise!

hot-J

I would like to defend Vitesse but I cannot because I have promised John I would NOT give any specs or details of the turbo I have (Special Tool's old stage III), but I will say one thing about it, it is ANYTHING but bolt on parts from diffrent vendors.

JET951

i have the stage 3 kit and it is just amazing, i think money very well spent. there are no mods needed for the kit to fit the car and the power is unbelievable.

fast951

IF you want details and sepcs on the turbo, you must ask me. ST is a customer, and he does not know the specs on the turbo. FYI, the turbo in question here, is a one off. It has one purpose, and it's to help ST achieve his performance goal.

No one here called anyone "stupid" perhaps you got us confused with someone else?

You comment on the VR turbos, do you have any first hand experience? Or just what you hear on the internet? Have you done extensive testing using Vitesse turbos?

Smoke and mirrors? Let's see, Vitesse customers, who actually purchased and tried Vitesse products, received what was promised. smoke & mirrors?
Oh yes, the dynos we list on our website were sent by actual customers. Did I tell you that the smoke & mirrors work long distance? LOL.

Why is it that Vitesse turbos spoolup the best, deliver the best performance, yet we are always attacked? On the 951, NOBODY offers a turbo that comes close to ours. Fast spooling, capable of lots of power, yet bolt on. Oh yes, performance is not a peak number, but a wide area under the curve.

If you don't approve of Vitesse products, not a problem! There are lots of vendors waiting to take your money.

You want detailed specs on the turbos? Again, not a problem! Lots of vendors will make it available for you.

Best of luck!

Porschefile

Yes but Chris, the turbocharger is just as vital a component as cams, engine management, etc. Changing the turbo can entirely change your performance, powerband, etc. I know some don't want to be bothered with all of the details, however personally I wouldn't want to put such a vital component on a car knowing nothing more than it is a stage x and good for such and such hp.

In all fairness, I probably shouldn't have said a word until I got the car running. Still, after examining the turbo, from what I have seen the turbine is too small for the compressor and will ultimately choke me out at higher hp. It's very similar in size to a Garrett gt3082r (35r compressor/30r turbine), minus the ball bearing center section. Generally, the 3082r is considered to be a mismatch of wheels, and I would consider this to be a mismatch also. The large 35r compressor wheel needs a slightly larger turbine to generate enough axial torque to drive the heavier 35r compressor. Also, the larger 35r turbine is better equipped airflow wise and aerodynamically to keep up with the 35r. Think of it as replacing your 17" wheels with 13" wheels to make them spin faster, though less work gets done overall.

Uh, what's the question? I didn't build my 911, I bought it as is. Unfortunately it had a cobbled together setup that was slightly ghetto rigged. I'm still finding issues on it that need fixing. It's definitely not the way I would have built it. I got a big turbo as I've been overanxious to make some ridiculous hp, however I think I will re-sell it and go with a Gt4088r instead.

As for a 951, how is a Gt35r on a street 951 unbelievable? With a full sized 35r, you can go with a .63 and have it still be decently responsive. Surge might be an issue, however there are retailers such as Forced Performance that offer the 35r with a compressor surge housing. A .63 is going to limit hp, and I doubt that 600+rwhp could be acheived with such a small hotside. A .82 wouldn't be too terribly laggy either, though full boost from ~4k is way too laggy for some. I've seen plenty of other non-Porsche cars with streetable 35r setups, and some with smaller albeit more efficient motors.

Porschefile

I purchased the stage 4 from Boostguy951 (Joe Mckerall). I didn't say I bought it from you, and I'm sorry if it sounded this way.

Nope. In all honesty, I was leary of paying $1900 for some unknown turbo without knowing the specs on it to give me some general idea of how it might perform. On top of that, it seems very few people have used the Stage 4, so I didn't really have any dynos or other people's experiences to go with. I bought Joe's because he was selling it cheap when parting his car out. A friend of mine has your Stage 3 setup, so I have experienced it. Though, I wanted more power for my setup. I bought MAF chips from you though, and I was more than pleased with them.


You have alot of nice products. I'm sure my words don't mean much around here, and I doubt it will hurt your business. My only issue is turbo specs. You guys have been claiming for the longest time you would break 600rwhp on the stage 3. I called BS(even said he'd top off around ~550rwhp & he ended up at 543rwhp), ST never succeeded, now he's upgrading. What should I be thinking? Now you guys are claiming 700-750fwhp. With these larger turbos, there are much fewer people that are going to use them so there is going to be much fewer dynos or other info to go off of. With some basic turbo specs it would be pretty easy to figure out what power it will support and what type of powerband it will have. That's all I have to say. I'm done.

fast951

Porschefile,

Again, I never sold you a turbo, I have no idea what your application is. You posting data about some turbo you did not purchase from me, yet you slam me, is DEAD WRONG. I don't appreciate it.

For the record, everyone here should be aware of this. Unless I give out the specs for a turbo, do not assume they are accurate or correct.!

Porschefile, WHEN DID I EVER CLAIM STAGE 3 WILL MAKE 600RWHP??? Please let everyone (including me) know where did I ever make such a claim. Now this is getting to be total BS!!!



ST has goals! I was within 5hp as to what his old turbo can make, how many people can quote you to within 5hp on a 540rwhp engine????? Even with the new turbo, I think ST (and he knows it), he's getting close to the limits that have not been crossed yet.

Obviously, you are ticked off about something, and you made me the target!! Again I NEVER sold you a turbo, I have no idea nor do I care where you got your turbo from. When I sell you a turbo for your application, then if it doesn't match up to what I promised, then and only then you have the right to slam me. The only thing I sold you is a MAF chip, and I'm glad you like it.

Enough of this BS.

edit: Again, WHEN DID I CLAIM 700RWHP with the new turbo? More BS statements on your part.

Porschefile, for the last time! Stop slamming me and my products on a public forum. The only part you purchased from me was a chip, and according to you, are happy with it.

TRWright

You were only 4 RWHP off from what you told me I would put down. (. . .and I made 4 RWHP more.)