More 951 High Power Jinx from the UK - for some reason the thread's in the 924/931/944/968 forum .... I'll link it here because it's about 951.

Consider this a public service.

CLICKY LINKY



Rick
www.cannell.co.uk

 

Actually it's in the 924/931/944/951/968 Forum, so I suppose it applies...

 

fight fight fight!!!

 

Were the numbers corrected or uncorrected, and if so what correction factor was used? There are alot of variables considering different dynos were used, and on different days. 401fwhp (if I'm reading the dyno chart correctly) is pretty lame to be arguing about Rick. You have a Super 75 for God's sake! Hell, I'll paypal you $100 to run it on the dyno at 25-30psi! Lets see some actual serious hp numbers guys! j/k (seriously though, I'd paypal you!)

 

Heh, now go over in the actual thread linked above and post, nobody from there reading this....

 

I've made my final post on the other thread. I'm not here to get in to a pi??ing competition. My intention was to draw attention to the diffferent standards used.

On my site I chose the DD facility at Weltmeister as the standard benchmark just to get around all the problems caused by running on different dynos. It's a level playng field for everyone to see how their car has improved / declined when we do out annual dyno day. The dyno used two years before was reading considerably higher than the figures obtained on the DD and a lot of people were rightly concerned that their cars had developed a fault, when none actually existed. Taking cars back there now would probably result in an instant 10-15% improvement, merely by moving to a different (more flattering) dyno. That particular cell is also only able to handle up to aprox 250 WHP, if I recall. Great for pub talk, but of no use to serious 951 owners who want comparatives. Failing that, tour the country to find the highest reading dyno in the UK. Now there's a challenge. LOL

On my website '944 league' page you can look at any car, at it's list of modifications, and a history of it's dyno pulls. Most were taken at dyno 'get together' days, others by owners making their own individual visits. I'll accept graphs taken from the Weltmeister DD at any time. This is the point of the 'level playing field'.

Over in the USA, you guys have the same situation with Mustang and Dynojet etc as has been witnessed on many occasions on Rennlist. I suppose that we're just working on different systems.

However. My points as made in the other forum relate specifically to a level playing field.

It's not about 'is WUF the most powerful 944 in the UK'. I don't believe that it is and have NEVER made any such claim. That almost certainly belongs to one of the long established indedpendants who don't advertise tuning in the wider market, but who race their cars and don't want to reveal the actual power as it might be slightly more than regulation allow ... Also being a race car it may be a 5-7000RPM power special but offer no real usable torque for road use.

It's about quoting two sets of figures. One taken on the benchmark dyno - where all the graphs from my site were produced for comparative purposes, and one set of 'headline' figures taken elsewhere.

Contrary to some posts in the other thread, it is not a 'tuner wars' type post and I hope the background information posted explains that.

If you feel that trying to get a standard set of parameters by which to compare cars like for like is wrong, then I've lost my case and my '944 league' section of my website becomes instantly redundant. However, I know that it is used extensively as a terms of reference. It is not based along the lines of Andrew Coopers power thread on Rennlist, looking for headline figures, but provides a much wider context for oners to analyse many different aspects of their, and others cars.

The UK is a much smaller market than the USA, but is equally very close knit. Information tends to spread through the community very fast and the I hope that my website allows owners to very quickly establish the worth, or otherwise, of any modifications they may make (or have made) by using the DD at Weltmeister who will send me the graphs for immediate inclusion in my '944 league' page where they can be compared and contrasted with the same car in a previous state of tune, or similar cars. The worldwide nature of the internet allows my site to be read from all around the world, so allows a much wider audience to access that information very quickly. Comparatives versus absolutes.

Any other matters arising in the other thread are not relevant to my postings there.

Porschefile, thanks for the offer but running 30PSI on standard road fuel does not appeal to me for $100.... However if you'd like me to return the offer to you . I hope the above explanation helps in resolving some answers. I don't know of any Mustang or Dynojet's in the UK that could be used for comparison with you guys in the USA, or whether the calibration would be the same. I don't profess to make the same numbers you guys in the states do, but long term reading of Rennlist has shown that figures claimed on cars in the USA with similar or identical mods in the UK seem to read quite differently. This is a problem for the professional tuners to reconcile. Again we can go back to looking at the 'area under the curve' or any number of methods giving some sort of comparison between cars and a rough guide to drivability. This has been covered numerous times in Rennlist. Just to confirm - I'm not a professional tuner. I have no tuning parts or services to sell. What I do try to do is place all the information I have gained through experience in developing my own cars in the public (Porsche) domain in the spirit of a porsche enthusiast. Many of the mods on my car are unique, and in most cases I share that information fully, whether it has resulted in an improvement or indeed things that have failed to deliver as expected. Relatives against absolutes. What I also try to do is allow my site to help other on their way with Porsche tuning, and over 1,500 hits a day on the website indicate to me that many are finding it useful, as indeed I know from the may PM's I answer from Rennlist members among others.

MDanger - Grow up.

RBerry951 - Russel nice to see another tuner offering more value to the 951 market. This is always a good thing for all 951 drivers and yet again widens the choices available.

Sorry it's been a long post, but I've had my say now so must get back to work adding more to the websites.

For me, this subject is now done.

Rick.
www.cannell.co.uk

 

So everyone seems to be getting those LR Super 75's really pumping Russel

So they were running 21.5 psi and only difference, from my car, was LR head/intake?

Was their run on pump???

Let's say for sake of argument, due to the dyno comparrison issues they discuss in the thread, they got 400 TRUE hp at the wheels....still nice numbers for only 21 psi.

So, should I bump my boost up from 18psi now Russell?????

 

Rick, I meant 30psi on race gas! The problem is there are far too many variables and too many different dynos for there to really be a "standard" to cover all of these variables. Load dynos (such as Mustang dynos) can vary the load input, vastly affecting the performance of a turbocharged vehicle. More often than not, I've seen Mustang dynos setup improperly, causing really inaccurate results. I'd try to find a reputable dyno shop to stick with. I've been to various dyno shops around town and had vastly different results. On one dynojet my 911 made 290rwhp @ 1bar, then at another shop on a dynojet I made 431rwhp @ 1bar. Just have them run a correction factor of ~2.0 and you will always be pleasantly surprised!

 

Todd you should be perfectly safe at 20psi. As always, ease up your boost a little at a time and watch your A/F. Did you get everything hooked up on your Ztronix yet so you can send me logs?

Regards,
Russell

 

Ok.

I posted about the logs on the other thread I think. Going to get on the wiring issue this weekend.