jeffdicicco

hey guys,

I just finished building a 3 liter motor for my 951 and would like your feedback on the haltech E8 engine management system. It would be great to hear from someone out there running this on a similar set up.

thanks in advance,
jeff

George D

Jeff,

I just got back from my boost anonymous meeting. Nothing but a bunch of hot air. I'm sorry that your engine and car are currently seperated. I hope they get back together.

This is the system for your car. http://www.sdsefi.com/index.html

Had fun in LA wich ya.

George

devgriff

Anything in particular you would like to know about the E8 on a 3.0L engine?

Raceboy

We installed VEMS Genboard v3.3 on friends 3.0 8v. Had some head-gasket problems due to loose head nuts (and therefore early detonation because of the oil and coolant in the combustion chamber) but right now the car runs great @ 1,5 bars and pulls 194kph on the quarter mile (best ET was 12,4 due to very poor 60feet times).

Duke

That is pretty fast!

Raceboy

Yes it is, but that was with S2 LSD box not stock 951 one (that has long gears). 4th almost hit the limiter on finish line (6800).

Chris White

As I usually mention – when buying a stand alone management system there are two things that you need to concern yourself with – product and support.
There are a lot of choices out there and there is no ‘prefect’ answer for everyone. It depends on the level of accuracy you need and the features that you require. There are some systems that are not as accurate (especially in the ignition timing) as you would think. Do some research on how they work.
Second – support. Even the most accurate system in the world is not worth anything unless you can get it up and running. These things are specialized tools – you will need some education along the way to get the most out of your set up. Either that or you will spend thousands of dollars on dyno time and risk an engine or two doing your own development.

About 10 years ago a dyno owner ask me the question (as we were strapping down the car) “whats your R&D budget?”, I replied that I had already reserved the dyno for 4 hours. He replied that he knew that already – was I ready to hurt the motor? That was the only ‘real’ way to find the limit of its capability. He speaks the truth. Since then I have, on purpose, toasted head gaskets to find the safe limit of timing, boost, and other management settings (I still haven’t tossed a rod, but I keep pushing!). Do you want to run these experiments yourself or is there a database available for your engine management system that you trust?

Chris White

Raceboy

If you want to be good at it, you have to learn things in the hard way.
If you just want a your car to drive, let someone else tune it properly. Because if you get acalibration file that is "almost" the same engine as yours, it's just a good starting point nothing else.
Every engine is different, even wearing out has significant influence on VE, timing etc.

jeffdicicco

thanks guys... chris, you make good points about testing. there must be a fine line between perfection and catastrophe. something to consider - i'm mainly interested in programmability and drivability. i'm not as much interested in squeezing every last hp out of one of these systems - i'm confident that this motor will already be more than enough for me (it's mainly a street car).

"devgriff", i would like to know if anyone out there is running the E8 system.

jeff

OZ951

Jeff,

I run an E6X which has a lot of functional similarities with the E8. My setup is purely as a track car so there are some items like idle air controllers that I have not needed to install.

In addition to the points that Chris White has made, you should also consider your preferred injection/ignition setup batch vs sequential etc in order to determine which ECU is the best value for you.

My finding is that owners often like to defend the ECU brand that they bought so you should always take what they say with a grain of salt.

I am happy with the performance results I have obtained from my E6X but I did come across a variety of problems along the way while I was getting it setup. I should point put though that I knowingly went into the install, aware that no one else (that I knew of) had installed an E6X in a 944 Turbo.

Id sumamrise the E6X as being a little quirky in its setup but a capable ECU. It is capable of full sequential on a 4Cyl engine but its sequential programming is not as flexible as it should be and I believe that a firmware/software upgrade by Haltech could rectify that.... Haltech offers more functionality in hardware and software terms ie better sequential programming in the E8 and higher ECU's. I am presently running batch fire waste spark but will reconfigure it with a sequential setup when I put it back together, mainly so I can see for myself what difference that makes.

jeffdicicco

Hey Oz,
Ironically, i just got off the phone with a guy from Haltech. We went over the list of goodies for the E8 and yes, it does in fact have much more flexibility/programmability. It also is capable of running four individual coils. The other beauty of this system over the E6 is that it completely does away with the factory DME wiring. Mine being 17 years old, a bit brittle and had already been molested by having an ARC2 installed, is ready to go.The kicker is that the dealership wants over $1300 for a new one! Typical.
Anyway, let me know how/where you installed your hall effect pick up. This is currently my main concern.

OZ951

Jeff,

I used the Clewett Engineering 944 Crank pully and trigger mount, I originally purchased that as a 60-2 setup but that is where I had the issue with the haltech (E6X suffered noise issues with the reluctor sensor). I ended up swapping the reluctor 60-2 sensor for a hall effect as you have mentioned and that sorted out the triggering nicely. The hall effect sensor fitted in the clewett sensor mount without modification. I then removed the 60-2 wheel and mounted a pair of flying magnets to the rim of the clewett crank pulley. I have attached a pic of the clewett gear. Its not cheap but it is very well engineered and you will not have issues related to flimsy sensor mounting.

I replaced the entire loom, that was straight forward. I can provide you with some wiring hookup data if you wish. The only parts I had to fabricate was an adapter plate for the TPS (easy) and I had a bung welded onto the intercooler pipe for the air temp sensor. I used the stock spark plug wires. Yo may or may not need a bracket to mount your coils. I used TEC coils (also bought from Clewett) and mounted them on a bracket with the Haltech Ignitor and MAP sensor. The stock engine temp sensor is compatible with the Haltech. You can do boost control with the Haltech but I use an AVCR. I havent tried to control the Bosch IAC but that should be do-able.

Raceboy

What can i say, of course owners defend their purchases
VEMS can do ANY trigger, VR or HALL and direct ignition on ANY system (be it batch, seq. coil-pack or COP (coil on plug) directly, without ANY additional devices.
Honeywell 1GT101 hall sensor worked fine with just two notches that we welded on the stock crank pulley 180 degrees apart. No need for tooth wheel.
It has built in boost controller, wideband and egt circuitry plus LCD to watch it all.
And price? Could something beat it when it costs app 900$ for all? For 250$ they sell complete harnesses for 4 cylinder engines.

Chris White

Two triggers per revolution? Not really accurate (in my opinion)

For example – if your engine goes from 3000 to 6000 in one second (possible) the timing error is over 1.2 degrees with a two trigger per revolution system at best. That’s an average number, it gets worse in reality.

If you are tuning your system for high output a stable and very accurate ignition is way more important than the AFR. AFR can be +/- 5% with no ill effect. Timing cannot be that ‘loose’.

Chris White

PS – running batch vs semi sequential vs full sequential will not make too much difference in the ultimate performance. What it will do is give you more dynamic range for your injectors. With full sequential you can use a larger injector without idle issues or you can support more power/fuel flow for the same size injector.

Raceboy

Actually it's pretty accurate because you determine the tooth length in degrees in the software and the trigger event won't be something unknown. Also, does it trigger in rising or falling edge.
Proper position determining (BTDC) is obvious (in xx.x degrees).
If this doesn't cut it, you can use 951 VR sensor (it works with tha too).