PCinDC

Hey guys,
Thanks for the responses. To answer questions - I had a difficult time finding the quantity I figured we would need. I have immediate access to the other kind (allen headed). The grade would be the same, so there shouldn't be any issues there. If a shorter length is desired, I can request a shorter length, however I would be hesitant to do so without testing for fitment first. Factory lists the stud at M8x30 on the nut end. I don't know the dimensions of the Saturn stud offhand, but if it is 25mm, that should be fine. If anyone can comment on length of the Saturn studs in mm, it will help a lot.

Thanks guys!

Red1

Put me in for a kit. Thanks.

Racer46

I don't have one sitting in front of me but IIRC the Saturn stud is actually longer than stock. What makes it appealing, is the torx end that makes it easier to remove from the head while installed in the car.

KuHL 951

Not to make things difficult for you but my local Saturn guy can get up to 200 of the studs immediately. He even said he could have them shipped to you directly for your group buy with credit card payment. His computer was down but he can get me a better price tomorrow than the $.84/ea I paid for my set of 8. Do you want to give it a try or have you already picked up the allen type? If interested let me know. Mine only took 2 days to get out west from back east.

Sam Lin

The allen type is likely a better choice for most - very few people have a proper Torx socket. Yes a hex will work, but why not go allen and actually have the right tool for the job?

Sam

tconn

Hi
I don't see my name on the list. Just want to make sure I'm on the list for one kit.

Thanks

951Boost

Ok prob more info than what was requested but here goes;

1) Overall lenth of Saturn stud (average of 16 taken) 50mm. Lenth of the part that screws into head (meassured from shoulder, average) 17mm.

2) OL of stock stud (average of 8) 47mm. Lenth of the part that screws into head (meassured from shoulder, average) 15mm.

As measured by my crappy caliper (hey don't laugh it is actually pretty accurate for this sort of stuff).

I installed the set that came in the last GB, they worked fine. I guess the allen heads would also work fine, no need to double nut.








BTW- Reason I posted the lenth of the head end is because in the past people have expressed concern over the extra lenth of the Saturn stud. In my case there were no issues. Simple math with above #'s will give nut end lenth

por4ever

Put me down for a set.

Are you shipping USPS or UPS?

PCinDC

Tconn, sorry I missed you, your name is there now. I think there were a few others that I missed, sorry guys! You were all on my spreadsheet, just forgot to post to the thread. That said, if I'm missing anyone else let me know.

Sam, thats kind of what I was thinking as well. Everyone has the allen wrenches or bit sockets, whereas probably 5 people have the Torx socket. It did look like in an earlier thread someone posted pics of a 5mm socket working....

951Boost, thanks a ton for the pics and measurements, they are indeed helpful.

So from the pics it looks like the Saturn stud is a bit longer on the tap end than the standard stud. And while it is actually a fair amount longer on the nut end, the threaded portion of the nut end is 5-6mm shorter. I guess I don't see the length of the stud being a factor here, its just the drive method that makes these easier to deal with. Since the allen head type are set screws and not double ended studs, the length of the nut end is dependant upon how far you thread the tap end into the head. You would have a bit more flexibility this way.

I guess I'm not sure so I'm going to take today to call around to a few more places. I'll have a firm decision by the end of the day on this. So far, the dealers have told me that they didn't have them in stock...but that they could get them in with some time and shipping. Kuhl, I'll PM you later today about what you found, maybe we can work something out.

Bottom line guys, the supplier I have for the allen head studs is readily available to me and these will therefore be much much less of a hassle to get my hands on. I am already ordering a bunch of other stuff through this guys, and he's local to me so I can drive to get them and save myself shipping (although I have to pay sales tax).

I know the 'hassle factor' doesn't matter much to you guys but a lot of work is going to go into this, so if we can go with something just as good, but a bit different from what the other guys are running, and its a lot easier/faster for me to get my hands on, to me its an easy decision.

Regardless, I'll have an answer later today, so thanks for your patience guys!

PCinDC

Alright guys, here's what I'm thinking.

Torx:

1) Torx studs are desirable due to alternative drive method which makes them easier to install/remove than double-nutting the factory stud.

2) The drive method utilizes a rare male torx end with a female torx socket. This can be done with a standard hex socket however isn't really the right tool for the job. The closeup of the torx head above looks a little chewed up to me but it might just be the picture.

3) If the torx head were ever rounded off by using a standard socket and not a torx socket, there doesn't apear to be enough thread on the nut end to double nut the torx stud for removal. This means you'd be using a vice grip or some other creative form of persuasion. Not saying this is likely, but it is at least a possibility. A sucky possiblity.

4) Length of stud as compared to stock doesn't seem to be a factor. If the Torx stud were shorter than factory, it would make sense that the headers were easier to remove with these. The torx studs are actually longer, meaning they should make it more difficult. FWIW, I've never had a problem pulling my headers with the factory studs installed. Its definitely easier to just remove the head and headers together, but you might not be pulling your head.

5) There are two other sets of studs in the group buy that we would still have to use the old double-nut method - turbine and downpipe - two areas that would be really difficult to double nut.


Allen:

1) The allen head set screw also has a good drive method, perhaps better since the right tool for the job is readily available to everyone.

2) The allen head set screw is available in all of the sizes we would need, meaning we could replace turbine outlet studs and downpipe studs as well and not have to double-nut anything ever again. This may even make it possible to remove your downpipe with the turbo installed in the future.

3) The set screw is fully threaded. It can be installed at any depth, provided you don't bottom it out and that you leave enough threads to solidly secure the nut. This means you can have a bit less length outside the flange, which might help facilitate removal of the headers without removing the studs.

So that to me says it all. The main benefit of the torx head is the drive method, and if we can get a better drive method with an allen head, then I think thats the right choice. This is a GROUP buy though, so if you guys all think I'm nuts , say so. Otherwise, ALL studs on this group buy will be replaced by the correct length allen head set screw.

Plus, you can still sleep at night knowing you car has absolutely nothing in common with a 1994 Saturn SC2.

PCinDC

Okay so no objections and no new guys - looks like this is the list. If you are interested but not on the list now PM me or reply today as I am going to be placing orders today.

chapstic951

Paul,
Again, thank you for putting this together. Let me know when you need the money and how to get it to you. I can drop it off to save you paypal fees.....so I have an ulterior motive, I want to see your progress on the car and the engine you are building.

Steve

PCinDC

Hey Steve, That sounds fine - I should be able to start packaging stuff up next weekend, but I won't have all of the parts for probably 2 more weeks, we'll see. I'll PM you.

Everyone else - I'll PM you all with payment details.

Mark-87-951

I'm in. Allen head sounds good to me

Rob 3

If not too late, I'd like a kit as well. I'm in Japan on busines and haven't checked the board for a while.
If I made it great, if not, my problem. Either way, thanks fro going through all the hassle.