bald_joint

Hi guys,
one of the cheapest shop for 944 & 951 is eshocks.com
there is the listing for all kinds
http://www.eshocks.com/bil_veh4.asp?...rsche&Manf=All

toddk911

So what are the pros/cons with single tube vs. twin tube? I would assume faster response with the twin tube style?

User 41221

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention wa sthat you need to relocate or fab a bracket to mount the air deflector for the 951's (really easy to do if you have any welding skills at all or it costs about $10 at a muffler shop). I've got a set sitting on the shelf, I will see about snapping a picture of it tonight, if I get a chance. Keep bugging me if I am slow in responding, I have some work commitments that are keeping me busy, but I will get to it.

I really like using the Bilstein early NA inserts with 200# springs on a 951. I'll see about digging up part #'s when I post the pics.

Regards, ...Scott

toddk911

It looks like eshocks does not have Bilsteins for the fronts????

bald_joint

Actually, i never found any dealer that supply Front insert strut for any 944 or 951 !!!
Even on the official Bilsteins web site, there ain't any !!!

Is't possible they just omit to manufacture front strut that match the rear one ??? Is our rear shock is the same model as some kind of VW but they didn't bother produce front insert for our P-car ???

How knows !!!!

toddk911

Ahhhhh:

"Long time Bilstein guy here. I've been running modded early NA housings with Bilstein inserts "

So you would have to change out to NA struts and then get Bilstein inserts?

So I can't just pull my Koni inserts and put in NA Bilsteins I guess???

User 41221

If you have the replaceable Koni inserts, the Bilsteins should drop right in. I've swapped both inserts back and forth over a weekend at the track in my set up. The reason I go with early NA strut housings is that I've never found a cheap enough set of Koni strut housings, and its been easier for me to build my own.

You won't find a pn for a late model Porsche 951 Bilstein insert, since they never offered one originally.

Regards,

User 41221

By the way, I should throw a BIG caveat up here. This si something I do to my cars and I like it a bunch. I've done this for others and they've liked it too. But suspension "feel" is a very funny thing, and what is good for one person is horrible to another, so its up to you to own the responsibility of whether or not you want to do this. Its not the "ultimate" track set up, far from it, but it works well for the way I use a car. If you want to check it out, come to KC and I will gladly give a demonstration.

You can also ask Sam Grant, I took him for a ride on Nelson Ledges at 944Fest.

Regards,

cruise98

Todd:

What year is your car?

The 944 NA Fitchel & Sachs struts up through '86 can have the guts removed and a Bilstein insert installed. It is a piece of cake. The NA struts do not fit the 951 spindle without some modification, which is what Scott is talking about.

Bilstein used to make a fixed lower perch front strut for the 951 with the same cartridge/valving as the Firehawks, but discontinued those years ago. Now you are left with the Scott method, or buying the Firehawks and revalving them for your springs. Bilstein rear shocks come in several varieties and can all be valved to your specifications.

I bought the adjustable height Bilstein struts and had them valved for 250# springs. After sending them back for a second round, the valving was not too far off of the stock 380/190, so I may have wasted my time and money. The 380/190 valved struts and 400/200 shocks do not work well with stock springs in my butt shockometer opinion. BTDT. It has been years since I messed with all of this, but IIRC the 380/190 valving is setup for 300# springs. The Bilstein strut comes with the lower adjustable perch which can handle the stock diameter spring and a 2.5" i think (maybe 2.25"). I am not aware of a stock diameter 300# spring. If you stay with the stock spring diameter, your stock upper spring perch will work.

So I think your options come down to how you want to spring the car. Stock springs/bars, you have the Koni sawzall strut insert, or the modified F&S NA strut with Bilstein insert and the matching shock from either manufacturer. You could also buy the Firehawks and use them with the stock springs, but I did not like this at all. Some may disagree with me on this option, but it is your butt shockometer that matters.

Option 2 is the Firehawk struts and shocks with upgraded springs/bars.

Option 3 is Leda's with upgraded springs/bars/mounts/perches/control arm & torsion tube bearings

Option 4 is Motons or Koni racing or Ohlins or sky is the limit

Upgrading to the late ('87 on) factory strut mounts are worth it in my opinion. The KLA's are another good choice and very reasonable in cost. My personal opinion is that the early strut mounts give a very sloppy steering feel and allow the camber to change dramatically.

SoCal924

I dont know about the aluminum arm cars, but the early 944 rear shocks interchange with super beetle shocks...


J

toddk911

My car is 1987.

So I would just by the same year NA Bilstein inserts and I will be ok?

toddk911

Also, the PO put on Welt. springs. I think 250lb/200 fr/re

User 41221

cruise98, can you talk more about your problems holding alignment with early NA housings? Based on my experience, something must have been wrong with the way they were modded or installed if you were having problems. I've driven over 100k miles using this set up and never had a problem holding alignment or with tire wear. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just wanting to see if we can figure out why. There are two bolts that hold the strut housing to the spindle, and if you have it torqued to spec, there shouldn't be any movement.

Regards,

toddk911

Scott: how much of an effect does the strut bearing/bushing have on handling feel/alignment?

Jason @ Paragon Products

Just for reference our Koni prices are better across the board than eshocks and I feel sorry for the guy trying to fit a 8641-1365 Sport to the front of a early 944 (per their listing) as that is the cut the strut insert for a 964 and 993 chassis 911.