superloaf

my 944 turbo clutch pedal went to the floor while driving and now it doesn't work. pedal stays to floor although if i pull it back, it springs back to normal position. also, a pool of brake fluid formed under car.

please help as my car is stranded a block from home and i just need to know what it is. slave cylinder or something else? and how hard of a fix is it?

many thanks.

KuHL 951

Slave or clutch master, you really need to replace both though.Try and replace the blue X-over while you have it apart. Replacement of both is about 2 hours on a turbo counting a good bleed with a Motive pressure bleeder. Why is the slave cylinder on these cars so prone to failure? My Acura lasted to 190K and was still going strong, go figure.

superloaf

thanks for the quick diagnosis as i kind of have my hands full with one of my other cars and this being my reliable car kind of surprised me.

is this an easy-stranded-on-the-side-of-the-road-fix?

superloaf

why do you say i need to replace both?


what's the blue cross over?


i've had a 944 and/or 951 for over 15 years and this is the first problem i've ever had with a clutch hydraulic part or any clutch item at all actually (probably close to 200k miles between them.)

also, porsche offers some rebuild kits for these items--do these work ok or is it best just to replace with new parts? i guess the new parts aren't that expensive.

and, finally, does the slave cylinder usually leak when it fails or do i have a bad fluid line instead. just asking since i haven't been under to look yet.

KuHL 951

It's always better to replace both. If one has failed the other one becomes the weak link. You can gamble but most people will agree with replacing both. The blue x-over is the hose from the brake reservoir to the clutch master and they gey pretty old after 20 years. Porsche offers a rebuild for the clutch master but you have to get the kit for the slave from an outside source. I feel rebuilding them is the best way to go unless you find out yours is all corroded. Being fron LA I doubt that's the case though.There is a hydraulic line between the clutch master and slave that has a section of hose that can fail. Usually if it's the slave you can put your finger in the inspection hole at the bellhousing and feel the fluid where it's leaked out; if it leaks from the master it will be wet behind the carpet where the clutch pedal rod goes through the firewall. Pull the carpet back to check that spot.

RM512

i just re-built both with no problems. As long as the cylinders are not scored, you're good to go.
BTW, the clutch master is a PITA to remove. be patient

jwlester

You may laugh but...get a wife/girlfriend to help. I couldn't get the master out or the nuts back on it with my hands. Old lady had to help out.

Cheers, Josh

superloaf

thanks for the tips, guys.

one thing i've always hated about this car was the very stiff clutch pedal--do you think replacing all the hydraulic parts will ease the effort at all or is this strictly a factor of the pressure plate springs?

also, something's leaking on my car and whether it's the fluid line or the slave cylinder, i'm not sure yet. is there any danger of the leak contaminating the clutch disc or are the parts in question far enough away that this isn't an issue?

RRRandy

I am doing the same job this weekend, for the same reason. The fluid on mine was dripping down onto the starter. The slave cylinder is located directly above it.

The actual failure was the diaphragm in the slave cylinder. Most of the fluid appears to have dripped down and out the clutch inspection hole and not on the clutch. But I would say there would definitely be possibility that brake fluid could get on the clutch...IMO.

Another piece of advice I got was to replace the hose from the master to the slave. Its a part rubber and part metal hose that is prone to failure. This is different that the braided blue line as mentioned above.

KuHL 951

If it's the slave the fluid will usually drip out the bottom without getting on the disc. A leak at the master will eat off the paint and foul your carpet up pretty bad. I always felt the clutch was almost too easy to pish on both cars. The pedal assist or 'feel' can be adjusted by the big spring set at the top of the pedal, not the return spring at the very top. The only other adjustment is the freeplay in the pedal and that's done at the rod-to- the master cylinder also at the back of the pedal. Try to get about 1/8" freeplay before you can feel some resistance. The adjustment is sort of subjective, some people can't feel the point where resistance start on the pedal at all. Remember it's better to have some freeplay than none, no freeplay can wear the disc out pretty quick.

Jimbo951

I had my master/slave fail a few years ago. It was possible for me to drive the car even with this failure. In my case, the clutch went 80% of the way to the floor but not all the way:

1) Put car in first gear
2) Push clutch
3) Start car. The clutch may not be fully released but if it's released enough, you'll be able to start the car. The car will start rolling forward immediatedly!
4) If you're only 1 mile from home, drive it in 1st gear only. I could shift into 2nd by pressing the clutch and matching the RPM's and pulling it into 2nd.
5) If you come to stoplight, pull off the road, stop and then restart at the green. Or slow down an try to time it to the green.

I drove 25-30 miles like this.

superloaf

yeah, i thought about trying that but the car's only a block or so away and i bought a new slave cylinder today. i guess i'll fix it ghetto style--on the street, that is.

damn, jimbo, 25-30 miles. here in LA no one would notice as they all drive like they're stuck in 1st gear anyways!

(and i've got to give thanks to performance products. they were the only ones who had the slave cylinder in stock including all of the SoCal dealers. and only $68. BTW pelican parts has become so sucky. everytime i deal with them it gets worse. now they say they need 24 hours notice to pick something up. i'm done using them!)

KuHL 951

I've pushed trucks farther than a block. Buy some beer, get some help and push it unless the block is like a mile or something.

RRRandy

I got my slave Cylinder from Paragon for $73...in stock and should be here tomorrow.

Jimbo951

Sugarloaf:

It's a much longer story....

I had just purchased the car 6 months prior, and was at my first Driver's Ed event at Lime Rock. After the first day on the way back to the hotel, the Master/Slave failed. The next morning, I nursed the car back to the track (the car will go 60 mph in 2nd gear) hoping someone could fix it or get me out of this mess without having to get a tow. I was lucky... the local 944 guru mechanic just happend to be my instructor. He did something to the car (probably bled the slave) to *fix* the M/S, and I limped the car home. I used all the gears but was very delicate with the clutch. I was 50' from home and at the last stop sign and the clutch went to the floor.

The 25-30 mile drive was taking the car up to my instructor who has now been my mechanic for the past 6 years.

PS: I'd try my trick first before I started a ghetto repair. Once you break the hose between the master and slave, you're committed. If you can't fix it or properly bleed the line, you'll have no choice except to tow it home.