mtnman82

Thanks for the info, Wes. On your edit about the cup clutch holding 400+ rwhp, is that with the Fidenza flywheel or a stock one???

Also, I'm wondering 'how much' it shifted your full boost point (how many rpm's)? Thanks!!

Jon Moeller

The only reason that a lightened flywheel would impact when boost rolls on is that the engine is actually spinning up faster. In the higher gears, when there's more load, you should not notice any change. If you do see a change, I'd suspect you have other issues.

-Jon

WesM951

Jon,
As i said, it may have been due to other issues.

mtnman,
The edit was based on a stock flywheel with Cup Clutch.

tconn

The stock pressure plate is not going to hold the power delivered by a Vitesse
stage 2 never mind the stage 3 . You really need to upgrade to a KEP PP.
Ask me how I know!!

mtnman82

Tim, do you know what kind of power you were putting to the wheels when your clutch was slipping? Was it stock clutch, stock pressure plate, and stock flywheel?

tconn

Stock PP ,disc and flywheel. All in good shape , infact the disc still has plenty of
life on it, it's just glazed over from slipping.
I've not dyno'd the car.
I think the problem is the way in which the Vitesse kits make the power.
The car drives more like a v8 than a turbo. The power is always there, no waiting for the turbo to spool.

special tool

I have said this many times - yet some guys still don't believe it.

guys - WE ARE NOT SPEECULATING COMPUTER GEEKS HERE, WE ARE SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE.
the stock setup slips if you ever make any real power.

And cup=stock

eospeed

I had a spec stage 3 hybrd slip on me at 15psi right after install so i went to the full stage 3

WesM951

ST,
I don't doubt you for a second, but tony g ran the fidanza flywheel and cup clutch and made over 400rwhp. Is there something i'm missing here?

mtnman82

This is why I was confused after reading quite a few other posts too. I don't doubt ST, Tim, or Charlie944 at all. But then from other's experience (Bret, TonyG) it would seem 350-400 rwtq can be handled by the stock pp (and either lightened stock or aluminum flywheel). I'm thinking maybe ST's definition of 'real power' is well over 400 rwtq/hp? BTW, oh special one, you guys speaking from experience, not the keyboard or calculator, are the opinions I'm looking for and value the most. That's why I'm kind of at a standstill for the moment.

I'm wondering how some are able to get away with running these power levels on a relatively stock setup and others aren't ..... or maybe this truly is the grey area (350-400 rwtq) where it may or may not hold for you. Living in Southern California (especially where I live) means I'll never have easy access to higher grade fuels (91 oct premium - ya hoo), which means I'll probably be running 15-16 lbs of boost most of the time (of course, that's what I say now ... who know's what'll really happen when I get a taste of that kind of power in this ride ). I 'was' thinking the stock pp/930 disk is all I would ever need, depending on the flywheel I chose. Now I'm thinking I might have made a mistake going with the stock pp, and not a KEP. Decisions, decisions .....

Tim - what boost levels were you running when your stock setup started slipping? I assume you could turn the boost down and keep it from slipping? If so, what was the highest amount of boost you could run without slippage?? Also, what setup are you running now (pp/clutch/fw) and impressions, please?

One last thing - I wanted to thank everyone for their valued inputs to this thread. There's nothing better than havng a chance to form opinions from others real world setups/experiences (unless you have the time/$$/patience to try all these different setups on your own car, of course). Thanks again!

hosrom_951

John @ Vitesse runs a cup clutch on his track car (old stage 3, 440+whp)

eclou

I have a tad over 300 rwhp, a Fidenza and the Power Friction kit from Vertex Auto (I assume it is the 930 kit). No stalling, excellent driveability and no slippage despite hard track driving.

tconn

Mtnman82
I run 15psi.
The clutch was ok for about a month after installing the kit then it started slipping once in awhile after smoking the tires and then it steadiliy got worse.

350-400 rwhp with a Vitesse kit and 350-400 rwhp with brand x kit are not the same and can't be compared. As John always says , look at the area under the curve!!
I'm not a clutch expert but my guess is that when the power comes on so early
and hard it stresses the clutch more than with a car that has a slow easy build
up of power with a peak in the upper rpm ranges.

I went with stock flywheel, KEP stage 1 and bronze ceramic 6 puc disc.
I also had Markus Blazak rebuilt the clutch fork.
Car is still apart but I've heard good reports from others running this setup.

OriginalSterm

He told me this as well when I purchased a Stage III and new clutch kit.

tconn

John also told me this when I bought the stage 2 kit.
Fact is my stock clutch setup did not last long, fact not theory !