kwdrus

I have to disagree with you regarding greater accessibility. The only time a coolant hose interferes is when you slide out the upper mounting bolt. All you have to do is push the hose down a few mm. It saves a huge amount of time. I can usually have the alternator out in 10-15 minutes. But the again I've done it a few dozen times.

ben951

Ok, well here is the next problem, i tried to jump start the car using my truck, just to double check that the battery was the culprit, as soon as the truck was switched on the voltmeter on the dash jumped to 14, but still the starter would not click, so its not that there is no power, could this be the problem of the ground that is connected to the engine block? i have triedseeing if it is connected, but cant get to it unless i strip alot of other wires and hoses out of the way. would it be worth my while to go to home depot and buy some cable, and run another ground from the battery to the engine block?

kwdrus

Ok, first pull the starter and bench test it. Use a set of jumper cables, negative to the starter body and positive to the two terminals. It's a very crude way of testing it, but it works. If it's fine, then you have a wiring problem. Check to make sure you have a good connection at the white plug by the brake booster. Another test to do is to apply 12volts to the thicker red wire on that plug, on the side leading to the starter. If it cranks then you have a wiring problem inside the car.

In regards to your alternator, since you dash gauge saw 14v when hooked up to the truck I'd say that you have a possible combination of problems, namely the ground cables and the wire coming from the alternator. The car is 20 years old and the wires show it. Their insultaion is probably all heat rotted and have allowed the wire stranding to become corroded. This creates a multiplication effect. Corrosion= increased resistance which creates heat in the wire which inturn increases resistance. That's why the gauge will show a higher voltage when it's first started and then begin to decrease. Turn on all the accessories and you'll draw more current and therefore increasing temp inside that wire.

Once you get the starting problem sorted, take out he alternator and add a short pigtail wire to the large terminal on the back. Reinstall the alternator and route that pigtail so that it's easily accessible from the topside of the engine while it's running. using a multimeter test the voltage fro that wire using the engine block as your ground source. Then check the voltage across the battery terminals. If your charging circuit is seeing a voltage drop, you'll see it right away.

Good Luck

ben951

okay, so the test i did was a bit crude, but it worked. i climbed under the car, with a jump lead that was connected to the battery in the car, touching the switched live on the starter should have made it turn, but it didnt, so i connected another jump lead to the - side of the battery and tested again, this time the starter worked, so maybe its a ground? so i took a piece of wire from the - side of the starter and strapped it to the chassis to act as another ground, touched the switched live with my jumper cable again, it worked again, so the next step, i left my new ground connected, and got someone to turn the key, thinking if the old ground was bad, the new one wasnt, so it should work, it didnt. does this little test tell anyone more than it tells me? i am at the conclusion now that it is the ground that is attached to the starter that is bad, is this correct? if so where does it lead to and how can i fix it? Thanks in advance!

TRP951

I would clean all the contacts to the starter first thing since, i know this isnt the same but my one wire on the starter vibrated loose and didnt make contact and the starter would click over and over then i hooked it up and it started fine. So a bad connection might be the culprit. Try to follow all the cables from the starter back and see if one is shorting out. When i removed my stock cables they were pretty shot cracked insulation and some corrosion which will increase the resistance to a point where the starter might not get the current needed or worse start a fire shortly so be very careful with those wires and i would strongly recomend getting a fire extinguisher if you dont already have one. I also picked a nice battery cable replacement from kwdrus which are larger gauge wire and fiberglass sleeving to prevent heat damage that route the starter and alternator on seperate cables which dont connect the 2 and go straight to the battery. They are very well made and im positive i wont have any electrical issues with the battery cables again, and charging should be better since it wont have to go through the starter to the battery.

cpt_koolbeenz

Take your jumper cable and attach it to the block in a clean spot, then attach the other side to the ground post of the battery. Then try and crank the car...

Tell us what happens...

ben951

tried grounding the car to the block using the jumper cable, car didnt start. am just taking off the starter. where does the ground wire that attached to the starter go to?

cpt_koolbeenz

Ground wire? On the starter? Sure it is not the positive?
The starter is grounded through the bellhousing...

ben951

the small wire on the starter, i just found out its not the ground, but anyhow, i just traced the wire back, and as far as i can tell, it leads back to the alternator? is this correct? if not, where should it go?

kwdrus

No, it's the trigger wire from the ignition switch. you can trace it back to the white plug between the top of the brake booster and the rubber weather strip along the fire wall.

ben951

well, i think i have fixed the problem, i removed the starter, it worked, so i checked the ignition wiring, it was fine, so i decided to undo the clips that hold the starter wires, pull them right out, and hook the starter up right there in the engine bay, so i connected all the wires, and ran a jumper cable from the - side of the battery to the starter housing, turned the key and it worked fine, so i then moved the jumper cable from the battery and connected it to the block, worked fine also, so i am at the conclusion that the ground from the starter housing to the engine block was not good enoughwhen the starter was mounted, so all i need to do is run a new ground from the starter to the block somewhere and it will work fine, am i correct in assuming this? thanks everyone for your help!

35thSLP

The ground from the battery to the engine block is connected underneath the heater control valve at the top of the bell housing. It is right around where the referemce sensors go into the bell housing. before you take the bolt off of it put a piece of duct tape or stuff a rage into the hole in the top of the bell housing. If you drop the bolt in there it will make what should be a very simple job into a nightmare. Any way, take the bolt out an clean the end of the cable and the bell housing. then try it!

kwdrus

I'm not following what you mean when you say that you want to run a new ground to the starter. The starter is grounded by direct phsyical contact with the bell housing. It's the same as when you grounded it to the block.

VWaddict

There are only three electrical paths of inpartance to the solenoid/starter assembly.

1: Permanent Power
2: Trigger (start)
3: Ground

If all else confuses you, take a voltmeter (Radio shack probably sells multimeters for $10. I have a $500 Fluke meter, but all you need is a cheap voltmeter to learn a lot.)

The ground is through the case. That leaves two.

Test that you have 12V permanently present at the thick wire. This is what turns the engine. Connections have to be good and firm. High-Resistance Problem symptoms in either the ground or the permanent live paths usually manifest themselves as a repetitive clicking of the solenoid when you try to start.

No click at all when power is present -even a small charge in the battery- less than is needed to drive power windows- usually points to a lack of a start trigger. -You can easily check for this even without a multimeter by connecting a small 12V light bulb (like a 5Watt tail-light, or even a small dome-light bulb, with two long wires attached to it, with alligator clips on the ends).

For all troubleshooting, clip one end of the multimeter or test-lamp leads to the battery ground terminal. try for power at the permanent live. If you have power there, try for power at the switched trigger. If the light comes on when you turn the key to start, you have a start trigger.

If both light up, you either have a bad starter or a bad ground path. A bad ground path outside the starter can be tested by clipping the test light or multimeter between the battery ground and the STARTER ground (the body of the starter). If the light bulb lights when you do this, you have a bad ground.

Your problem sounds like bad (corroded) wire ends, poorly connected ends or just a bad starter trigger, (which could possibly be a bad ignition switch) but it is simple to test for.

Keith

ben951

Well, thanks for all your help guys, it turns out that the starter was bad, confused me a little because it worked the first time i tested it and the next time it didnt? anyway, took it to the store today to get fixed, and fitted it when i got home from work, seems to work good, i'll see in a few days if its still going!!