Dave951

During my Lindsey oil pan baffle install, I noticed that my stock plastic insert had cracked in multiple places. Understandably I want to replace it, so I checked the PET. In the PET there are two different part numbers [ 944 107 389 01 and 944 107 389 02]. I'm trying to figure out which one is the correct part for my 87'.

Ski

usually, the higher part number is the updated pc.

Dave951

Turns out 944 107 389 02 is the one need. So your theory seems to be correct.

gmsracing

Aren't there two pieces to the baffle? (And thus the two part #'s?) The bolt together. Anyway, there is an updated one and that is the one you should get.

Antonio

I happen to have one. Bought from Paragon, but I did not use it because the one already in the pan was fine. You can have if for 1/2 the Paragon price. Drop me an email if interested (anthony1k@yahoo.com).

Dave951

Antonio, you have mail.

ENGINEERMAN

Hi all:

I have been doing a fair amount of maintenance and upgrade work on my 951 that includes replacing my rod bearings and fixing the oil pan leak that I was experiencing.

While I was at it Bob Vaiu at Auto Edge recommended that I upgrade the baffle to the 89 951 S model since it fixed the oil starvation problem in long left hand turns (apprently the earlier versions of the plastic baffle had some issues, sorry I don't have the part number handy). The LR oil baffle kit only addresses the oil starvation problem in long right hand turns. With the combination of both that's about the best you can hope for. He also suggested running the engine 1/2 quart high when on the track to prevent oil starvation issues. He also suggested using a 15-50 Mobil 1 full synthetic (I know that there has been a lot of discussion on this point but AE has A LOT of experience with 951's that are used on the track and street). Don't forget to use red Loctight on those little screws that hold the baffle in place.

Finally, he recommended reinforcing the pick up tube since they tend to crack and if that happens you will start sucking air! They do a modificaiton where they silver solder the pick up tube with reinforcements so that it will never ever crack (about $100 but well worth the insurance). They do really nice work.

OIL PAN GASKET INSTALLATION PROCEDURE:

Bob said that on engines that they REALLY want to make sure don't spring a leak past the oil pan gasket they use the following procedure:

1) Get yourself a can of Permatex AVIATION Form-A-Gasket with a brush top available from most good auto stores.

2) After thouroughly removing all residue and cleaning with a solvent, coat the oil pan sealing surface all the way around and do the same for the mating side of the oil pan gasket. Let sit for about 15 minutes unitl nice and tacky and then adhere the gasket to the oil pan using the screws to locate the gasket properly and press down to seal the gasket as evenly as possible (wipe off any excess that might have squeezed into the inner side with a rage and solvent).

3) Coat the top side of the gasket that mates to the block and install the oil pan before everything has a chance to set up too hard as this will not allow for the Permatex to evenly distribute when tightening things up upon installation.

4) Using Loctite on the oil pan screws, lightly snug down the screws in the pattern recommnded by the factory manual not much more than finger tight and then repeat tightening about another 1/4 to 1/2 turn (you don't want a lot of torque being applied here). Tightening any more will cause the gasket to squirm out from between the oil pan and the block, that is the purpose of the Permatex, to hold the gasket in place without causing it to squirm out of place due to overtorquing. This requires a nice low torque value. The Loctite will prevent the screws from coming loose because you cannot apply enough torque to stretch them without squishing out the gasket anyhow.

Both Bob & Rick swear by this technique and as I said earlier they have the experience to back them up. I know that this technique is different than what I have read on this site before but as an engineer with quite a bit of design experience with gasket design it is the one that makes the most sense to me and is what I use. If you have any questions call Bob or his brother Rick at Auto Edge in Minnesota (651-777-6924). These guys really know their 951's and 911's and I would trust Bob's advise without question.

I hope that this was of some use.

Best regards!

Tom

Dave951

Glad to hear from another engineer, Engineerman and thanks for the great information. I was actually planning on doing something similar to the procedure you described. I'll be sure to pick up the Permatex Aviation Form-a-gasket before reinstalling it.

Anyone looking for the Permaxtex but cannot find it locally, I found a site that has it.
http://www.dragosupply.com/drago/ser...log/group.jsp/

Ski

Permatex aviation gasket material is meant to form it's own gasket on aviation parts.

just my .02, if you have to put something on the block or oil pan to hold the gasket in, you have more problems than that. If it can't stay in clean and dry, with a dab of silicone in the corners, with proper torque, something else is wrong.

f1rocks

Bob at Auto Edge knows his 944's I'd trust anything he recommends. Has arguably one of the best F prepared 944's out there. He, his wife and son would humble many a driver.

I'm not sure it would hurt using the permatex, at worst, you're spending a few extra dollars. Ski, I agree that you shouldn't need anything more than a dab of silicone but is it really gonna hurt for the extra insurance?

Ski

I've heard of Bob, very respected, and this has nothing to do with driving skill - certianly no disrespect was directed at Bob. A little insurance never hurt with a new build or refresh, but band-aiding blow by/exceessive crank case pressure for an old car is just prolonging the problem.

Permatex Aviation gasket is a real PITA when you have to go back in, if for some reason, it's the bitch of bitches to get off if you haven't messed with it. It even gums up Rolocs.

Dave951

Thats a good point about the Permatex Aviation and getting back in there at one time or another. It seems that both schools of thought on this issue are well thought out and have certain advantages.

ENGINEERMAN

As I said in my earlier post. I have mostly read the view espoused by SKI as the preferred method but being as Rick Viau (Bob's brother) stated that in his opinion (and he has literally removed and replaced thousands of these over the years) that this solution using the Permatex Form-A-Gasket was what he does when he really doesn't want it to leak I will take him at his word. Besides I have also read that the main mode of failure is when the gasket "walks out" in the long unsupported space between the bolts. With that said it appears logical to me that a little adhesive would help hold the gasket in place. I have not found the Permatex difficult to remove with a little solvent. Again, I'm sure both methods work but if using the Permatex use sparingly, you don't want it floating around in your engine.

Good luck!

Landjet

Someone makes an aftermarket piece that bolts around the outside of the oil pan to keep the gasket from pushing out. Does anyone know how to contact this person? It is a small metal piece that bolts onto the oil pan and the flange holds the gasket in. I am getting ready to change my oil pan gasket and would like to purchase this item if anyone knows.
Thanks

Ski

MySwiss IIRC is his user name, he has a web site, I think he's located in Canada, someone will post up his web site.

engineerman, I'm not doubting anyones word, and I haven't changed thousands, I've done 8 to be exact. They have all been put in clean and dry, with the exception of a small dab of silicone in the corners. ALL ARE DRIP FREE to this day including my 6 yo refresh; one a 2.8L with VR stage IV system. So yes, I think the added "glue" is not needed - its called a difference in opinion. If you have severe crank case pressure, then more than likely, either the rings are shot or the cylinders are out of tolerance.