Jon Schepps

I also recommend eshox.com. Great prices, but they are not very Porsche-performance knowledgable, so you have to know what you want.

The Bilstein p/n's for the 600/180 front struts are AK1120 / AK1121 (left & right)
The rear 565/218 coilovers are AK37354.
They also sell Eibach ERS springs for about $50/each.

Skip Wolfe

Any idea how much eshox sells those for?

PorscheDoc

Yea, those are good prices, they are selling at cost. They must get an additional percentage back from bilstein.

Jon Schepps

Skip- I bought them over 4 years ago... don't know current prices. The Lindsey Racing kit prices look pretty good though, with springs and camber plates. Maybe someone will compare to a current eshox quote.

PorscheDoc

eshocks:
380/150 is 356.85 per front strut
Rear 400/200 is 200.85 per shock
600/180 is 415.35 per front strut
Rear 565/218 is 239.85 per shock
I am guessing this is without the springs of course.

ehall

With springs I just paid 1624.00 including shipping.

Lart, the Leda's are atleast 24 way adjustable, and with the added resevoirs perhaps more. You should find out from the PO what he had them valved for. They are valved based on the way you order them, to match your springs. If you need more specific info on the Leda's talk to Chris White. He is a distributer for Leda. I wanted Leda'smyself, but the weak assed dollar to pound ratio made the Leda's too much more expensive for my budget and needs.
That said, If you wanted to sell one set up, the Leda's should be worth a lot more money.

ENGINEERMAN

Hi all:

I might as well ask your opinion as well:

I have narrowed it down to two options:

1) Paragon Products set up:

Koni dual adjustable kit up front (Paragon sends them out to Koni for rework and you need to send them your struts).

Koni 3012 dual adjustable coil overs in rear.

Remove Torsion bars and Jason recommended 300 lb springs in front and 400 in rear or about 100 lbs more in rear than in front.

Cost: ~$2250

2) Lindsey Racing set up:

Bilstein Escort kit front & rear (light spring rates in front).

Remove Torsion bars and Dave said that most people go with slightly more in front than in the rear, say 300 in front and 275 in rear.

Cost: ~$1600

In any event I was going to use the 968 M030 anti-roll bars front and rear and add camber plates and a Brey Krause Strut bar.

The car has Bridgestone 285-30-18's in back and 225-40-18's in front so there is plenty of rubber and it sticks like crazy. It's just too floaty on the track.


The Koni set up has much more adjustability (rebound and compression) vs the Bilsteins which I am not sure is really necessary with the way I will use the car (primarily street with 4-6 DE events per year) assuming that I get the right combination on the Bilsteins out of the chute. Is it worth the extra money in your opinion to go the Koni route or how would you set up the Bilsteins and will that be a good set up for most events? I am just looking for a good solid durable and well balanced set up for both the street and the occasional day of fun as I said. The car has plenty of power (~325whp) so I can control the rear with power in a turn very easily.

Any thoughts as to which is the best way to go, what spring rates to use, etc would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

ehall

Are you sure that Dave said 275 rear W/O T-BARS? Double check that. Is he talking about the Firehawk front struts with the Escort rear coilovers? That sounds out of whack w/o t-bars.
Paragon does the koni conversion in house IIRC. There isn't anything that Koni does.

As far as set up, I'm running Escort Front struts valved 600/190 with 350# Hypercoils and 565/218 rear with 550# hypercoils in the rear w/o T-bars.
275 rear sounds like a hair stiffer than standard WITH t-bars. Anyway, check that out. Youmay do well with the Koni set up, but for less money you can easily go with the less aggressive Bilstein Firehawk set up sold by LR and be just as happy. Remember that bilstein USA will revalve them cheaply for a custom setup, and they are great struts and shocks.
Get the strut and shock/spring rates right. You don'twant to have to try to over compensate with sway bar. I'm set up for some understeer because it'smy DD. If I want to track the car, I'll up the front springs to balance the rear.

Rene

I vote for the Koni's. I have the Paragon Products Koni set up in mine with 600 & 700lb springs & no T-bars it’s a great set up.

ENGINEERMAN

Ehall:

LR labels them the ESCORT CUP. They are available in either the 380/150 valving or 600/190 in front and 565/218 in rear. So that seems like what you are describing is the LR ESCORT CUP kit with the track set up valving in front.

2 questions;

1) Is the 600/190 too stiff for street driving or would I be better served using the 380/150 valving?

2) What rate springs are you using front & rear?

Rene:

1) Are you using the 3012's in the rear and the double adjsutables up front?

2) Are the 600 & 700lb springs too stiff for driving on the street in your opinion? I have never hear of anyone using springs that stiff for anything but track use.

It seems like most people recommend that the rear springs should be 100 lbs higher than the fronts (assuming no rear Torsion Bars). Is that the best ratio to achieve relatively balanced to slight understeer?

I have been told that 400 front & 500 rear is about the practical limit and still be reasonably comfortable on the street. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

Jon Schepps

Engineeringman,
For a street car with occassional track DE events, either setup will suit you fine.
For the softer-valved bilstiens, LR is probably assuming you're retaining the stock rear torsion bars. Then it would make sense to use about 350# in front, 250-300# in the rear. The higher-valved bilsteins are designed for much heavier spring rates, and would not be appropriate for a daily driver.

The Konis are decent quality as well. The adjustability is nice, but let's face it, are you THAT good a driver that you will be need to make slight tweeks to the compression and rebound characteristics of the shocks, compared to a well-matched shock/spring setup? Are you able to turn such consistent lap times that you would even recognize whether an adjustment was helping or not? I'm an experienced advanced/instructor driver, and went from adj. Konis to fixed rate bilsteins several years ago, and have had no need/desire to adjust them.

Again, either setup will be a vast improvement over stock, provided you match them up with the proper spring rates.

Jon.

Rene

Engeneeringman,
My car is strictly a track car that’s why I went that heavy on the springs. That’s also what Jason at Paragon recommended. I really put allot of trust in Jason he is in my PCA region & this is the second car I set up on his recommendation they both were right on. Its also nice to have Jason or Chuck at the track when you have questions

If the car was street legal I might occasionally drive it to a PCA meeting or rally but I wouldn’t use it as a daily driver.

I like having adjustability in the dampers on my first car I originally set the rear shocks too stiff & the car would over steer in the corners, I softened the rear shocks & the over steer went away.

I have double adjustable struts up front & 3012’s on the rear & camber plates up front.

ehall

I think that's all you need to know Engineerman. He's right about adjustablility.

tony s

shox.com have the best price on bilstein escorts and firehawks. they sell me the escort with eibach springs for $ 1499.00 + $90.00 shipped to puerto rico