snappy

lets put it this way,
would treating the metal harm anything?
if we all agree it wont break any bits, then there should be nothing to loose for someone trying. i like those odds 50/50.

all steam ahead into the unknown scotty

Oddjob

Well it depends on what process the cryo treatment uses.

I spoke to Bill Groschen (Diversified Crygenics - the frozen rotor guy) about his rotors several years ago. I did not believe that taking a chunk of metal from room temperature down to -300-400 deg F would have much effect on the material properties. But he told me there is also a heating process that is used. He was not talking too technically at the time, and it was a long time ago, so I cant be sure, but I think he said that the part is first frozen and then heated to a specific temp.

For something like a rotor casting, this process would be beneficial. But I would be concerned that an already quenched/annealed/tempered/case hardened part may actually be softened by an unkown heating process.

If the cryo process you are being offered is only freezing the part, then I dont think it would hurt anything. But if there is heating involved, find out how high a temp the part will be brought to, because it may be detrimental

jimbo1111

I have heard that the Germans used a Cryo process on there tanks during WW2. The Americans had a hard time blowing them up and concluded that there steel was far superior to ours. It turned out that the way they treated the metal was the only difference.

inactiveuser92616

I could see cryo helping metals in general, if the metal was rapidly quenched to give it a smaller grain structure. I will get back to you after my engineering materials class next semester.

pole position

No, the Germans had simply thicker(and far heavier) steel made by the at the time leader in steel production, Krupp , no cyro there. Plus the US had relativly puny guns on their tanks which were inferior to the german 8.8.
Seeing them side to side , the Sherman looks like a toy tank next to a Tiger.

f1rocks

Actual proof/Anecdotal evidence...I don't really care what I do know is when I buy gun barrels the cryo treated AR15 barrels stay accurate far far longer than a standard barrel similar to the drill bit evidence. All things being equal I believe there is an advantage but....

This is the "dinger" for me. I would need some "anecdotal evidence" as in real track testing that gears already case hardened could have any improvement from cryo treating.

Man I miss my metallurgy. Nothing like the smell of molten metal in the morning.

Oddjob

Here is the cyro-process description from Diversified Cyrogenics:

"Deep cryogenic tempering is a one-time, homogenous process that permanently and dramatically improves the performance and useful life of metals in everything from brake rotors and performance engines to machine tools and gun barrels. Using a proprietary computer-controlled process, the metal is cooled slowly to deep cryogenic temperatures (-300°), and slowly returned to room temperature, then heat-tempered as the final step. Computer technology allows us to regulate temperatures to 1 degree, accurately controlling Cryo tempering in accordance with the material and mass of your parts. Although not apparent to the naked eye, the improvements to the metal are significant. Deep cryogenic tempering creates dramatic increases in abrasive wear resistance and durability. The increases in tensile strength, toughness and stability couple with the release of internal residual stresses.

Deep cryogenic processing creates a large amount of fine or small carbides that precipitate uniformly throughout the lattice structure. This greatly improves the wear properties of metal. The process also completes the martensitic phase change which creates a metallurgically improved and stabilized alloy."

What I am curious about is the post freeze heat tempering. My feeling is that has much more to do with improving the material properties than the initial freezing process. I also think that tempering (temp, ramp up/ramp down time) can be specific to the alloy composition, which the cryo shop will not know.

Oddjob

You need to quit using steel jacketed bullets and you wont have to worry about your rifling going down range with the projectile!

Porsche-O-Phile

Rapid quenching makes the metal harder, but a lot more brittle. Not sure how far you'd want to go with that before running into shear failure (due to shattering) issues.

f1rocks

My barrels are $950 a pop, I guarantee there are no steel jacketed bullets going through them Only Sierra hollow point boat tails....

f1rocks

Your 951 camshaft, crankshaft and gears have all had some pretty rapid quenching during the hardening process. In controlled locations specific to the induction hardening process. You can actually warp a camshaft by quenching incorrectly (too slowly or too fast) Ask me how I know, we warped a couple hundred a day on a bad day.

I don't think the cryo process has any rapid quenching in it. My concern would still be taking an already case hardened component, the gears, and doing this "one time process" (as advertised in the Diversified Cryo description)

Rotors, Gun Barrels all have this done to them without a hardening process. Even engines probably have no hardened components when they have this process done. I would still want to see some previously hardened gears cryo'd run hard and put away wet to see how they would hold up.

ehall

It had ZERO to do with cryo treating the steel. We were using Sherman tanks with tiny pop guns, and rifled barrels. They had lousy penetration value. Moreover the German's used MUCH thicker steel plating, by comparison to the sherman, so the sherman was lucky to get one shot on a panzer before it went ba bye! We won't even discuss the Tiger tanks.
The Pershing Tank, in late 44 was more than up to the job of dusting a panzer in one shot.

DanaT

Use chrome lined. It much harder than any steel you will encounter.

-Dana

f1rocks

Unless something has changed since I was big into DCM match stuff, Chrome lined barrels were not chic for match shooting. Haven't followed it much in the last 5 years.

DanaT

I love the "chic" thing. People think I am crazy. I showed up to IDPA with full power 10mm....

Who cares what is "in"

-Dana