Over Boost

Here’s my question. I own a great 91 325i BMW. I had planed on getting one and modding it. That is until I started to fall in love with the 951. So I posted my car on a few bimmer sites and it looks like it might be leaving me this weekend However now I’m starting to have second thoughts. That’s where you guys come in. How much do you guys enjoy your 951? I already know the 951 is much faster in a straight line, but what I really care more about is how it handles and feels? And how it would compare to the E30. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone with a 951 so I cant just go drive one. So I was hoping maybe some of you guys have driven both and can help me. Some of the things I like in my E30 are how tossable it is. Yet I like how its also solid. Unlike say a miata which is tossable but shaky in a way. I also like how my bimmer even though its stock has some low end grunt. So how does the 951 compare in those areas? Basically I just don’t want to do something I might regret. However I also don’t want that voice in the back of my head saying "should have bought the 951". Oh on a side note. If I do sell the bimmer this weekend it would actually be for a profit which is the other thing making think I should.

potent951turbo

I have had both cars. If your looking for reliability stick with the BMW. I am not going to say the 951 is not reliable at all, it just takes more work then any of the e30's I have had. Another thing to consider is if your e30 is in good shape they are becoming harder and harder to find and the prices have been going up. A lot of guys on bimmerforums.com are looking to get rid of their e36's and get the e30. I think the e30's are great cars and are as solid as a rock, I would love to pick one up again sometime in the future. The 951 is a better car for me personally. I love the looks and how the car feels. I like the handling better on the 951 and the power obviously wins. I think you really need to drive one before you give up your e30 though because they are great cars and like I said, if yours is nice at all I would definately consider hanging on to it.

jgporsche

I had my S before I got my 951. I got bit by the 951 bug when i first test drove mine. I had never driven a turbo car before and didn't know what to expect. I do also have an '01 mustang gt. But the power in my 951 is soooooooo much more. But it's more than just the power. I can't explain what it is. It might be that rush you get when full boost comes in, it might be the handling, i'm not sure. But, I tell you I would get rid of my '05 Explorer Sport Trac and my '01 mustang gt conv before i get rid of my 951. Even if it means sleeping in it.

Jon Moeller

If you don't need a daily driver, 951. If you need something that will go to work everyday, e30.

That's really the breakdown. 951 will smoke the e30 for acceleration, while handling and braking are definitely better, but not on the same order of magnitude.

I went with the 951, because I wanted a more powerful car on the track. I miss my e30, but the 951 puts a bigger smile on my face.

-J

toddk911

Yes, more work, time, effort and money in my 951 then other cars I have owned, but my 951 is also my daily driver.

TheRealLefty

I also have both cars, in fact two examples of both...a 951S (Track/Street nice weather), a 1985.5 NA (autoX), a 1989 325is (lightweight summer daily driver with 4.11 rear) and a 1990 325ix (AWD winter daily driver). As my son said, "If this was 1990 we'd be phat with fast cars."

Both are great examples of the best Euro engineering out there in the late 1980's. Advice here is sage. A 951 will definitely require more regular maintenance and more expensive bits...but can run reliably and deadly fast if you have the time and money to be proactive. The "racer's rush" is where the 951 parts company with the others. Honestly, the other three cars feel, how do you say, "perky" in town, but run out of acceleration just about the time the turbo kicks the 951 forward.

My favorite E30 is my iX. Slow but mint Diamond Black with perfect plain jane taxi cab vinyl tan interior and the cool 15" basket weaves. Totally reliable and billet like with just enough "difference" with it's high boy AWD clearance and short stubby profile to get a thumb's up from Euro tuner types.

Porschefile

Long story short, I put 50k miles on my 951 in 12 months. I've only spent ~$2k for all maintenance (oil changes, clutch master/slave, brakes, tuneup parts, suspension). There was only 1 time it left me stranded when the clutch master/slave went out, and I shouldn't have even been driving it anyways since I knew they were going. The E30 M3 is a cool car, but after owning a 951, I can't see ever buying an E30, as they are just too underpowered now.

Over Boost

Thanks for the quick replies. Can you guys tell me a little more about the 951's handling, suspension set up, and potential? Like I said I already know the 951 is faster, but if I keep the E30 I wouldn’t be leaving it stock either. I had plans to turbo the car. Which would end up costing me about what your average high mileage 951 goes for. So what I really want to know about is how they feel and handle. And which one has the fundamentals to be better.

special tool

where do you live in Ct??

Over Boost

Guilford

silverbullet

What you need son.......is a nice 944 S2 or 968.

Looks like a 951 but reliable, more low end grunt, better for every day driving. The 968 might be out of your price range, but the S2 should be right around a 951.

silverbullet

You could compare either of the above cars to a e36 M3, US spec.

Over Boost

well maybe, but if their as much as the 951 I might as well get the real deal.

TheRealLefty

Two points.

As to comparing handling, the E30 is a small, clean three box layout, not much bigger than a Golf, really, but with RWD. It is comparable to the 951 in weight, but no where near as stiff and with a noticeably higher roll center....also weight is not distributed the same, E30 is light in the tail by comparison. Harder, also to get as much rubber under the fenders as with the Porsche. Fewer choices for Plus 2 or Plus 3 wheels and tires. E30's also suffer some congenital weaknesses in factory sway bar mounting areas and rear shock mounts. I think, when all is said and done, you can build a really sweet E30, but it will still be a sedan, albeit a small one. Well prepared 951, on the other hand, can run all day at your next track day and hang with just about everything out there.

As to S2 and 968 option, if your primary use is street driving, agreed 100% that the 3.0 liter twin cam variant is a great choice...more torque and less turbo related maintenance and engine management issues. But if you plan to track your car extensively, you will notice that the 951's go bye-bye's when the hammer's down.

whakiewes

Comming from a BMW guy who has owned one and driven the other religously.

951 is way more planted as a whole of a car. I never had problem with traction until I got happy with the throttle. 951 has quite a bit of a step up in interior, and overall uniqueness. You/I hardly see 951's on a day to day basis, but I can guarantee you I will see an E30. 951 obviously is incredibly faster. Totally different handling than the E30 though. Rather than being able to do scandanvian slides, you have learn to control the throttle more than anything in the 951. E30, just throw, and smile.

Heres where I step in, and give a few differences. Buy a bone stock 951, spend $2,000 the first year in maitenence, $1500 on springs/shocks/bars/bushings to get your 20 year old car up to par, and then another $1000 in the first year on exhaust/chips/boost enhancer. First year alone, were at $4500. Now we are as fast as an E36 M3, unless you start with a 951S, and then were nudging up a bit faster than E36 M3. Next year you decide its time for more power, so you get the Lindsey/Vitesse/Kokeln turbo kit for $3500, another $500 on misc. parts you need for the upgraded turbo, and now your at 300-350whp. So, in short we are at $8,000 to get a fast car, thats semi-reliable, and can hold its own against almost anything. We didn't account for your plus 2 or plus 3 wheels .

I take my E30, bone stock. D2 Coilovers $1000, IE sways $400, bushings $150, and now we are on part with the 951 in the suspension area. E30 power sucks how ever you look at it. So to equal the 951 with chips/exhaust/enhancer, we throw in a cam'ed M50. I would/could pull 1-2 lengths on an E36 M3 like that. Engine/Acc about $1000, misc. needed parts another $300. So you decided you didn't think that was fast enough, so you wanted an S50/2. $4500 will get one in, around 240whp in a 2500lb car. Pulls on E39 M5's, even with E46 M3's. Well now thats not fast enough, so we do a 4.0L V8 swap, saves us 10lbs and moves more weight behind the front axle...wow handling got incredibly better as well. 300whp puts you well above almost any car you will encounter on the street and the fun factor would be several steps up from the 951 IMO. Cost of that swap is same or less than the S50. $6,050 puts you as fast as your boosted 951, and honestly with any of the swapped engines I listed, you can put oil in and drive and never touch a single thing. No timing belts, no turbo hoses busting, no nothing. Or if your real ballsy...you can go my route. Twin turbo V8 E30 swap. Should be around 500whp on pump gas.

You are correct that wheel/tire sizes aren't available on a BMW, but i've never had a problem holding traction with 225/50/16. Unlike the Vitesse 951 I was in, there isn't a sudden rush or torque that sends your tires screaming for help, theres a very linear, smooth, hiccup free power band from 1500 - 7000 rpms. If traction is an issue, we plenty of options...rolled fenders allow us to go to 255's. 255's are more than enough for 300whp. If it makes any difference, in one of my driving events in a near stock E30 M3(chip/suspension), I was on the bumper of a 951 all day long. He would pull on me on the straights like a ****, but anything where the car had to do some work, I was all over him. I think, although being a driving school, I was pulling about 2 secs faster per lap. This was two years ago or so. At the auto-x'es I would slaughter 951's!

On the other hand I absolutely love 951's. I personally am a fan of 968's a tad more, but all Porsches will be a step up from BMW's regardless of models. I have always attributed the 951's being sloppy when I was around them to there age and lack of care. I've only been in one well kept 951, the Vitesse car, and it was solid. Most of the 951's I have raced against or tracked with looked as if I could roll them by just pushing...as in busted shocks, saggy springs, etc. These are things that would be easily fixable, but as a whole, most 951 owners I have met don't do this. They buy a 951 because its a $6,000 Porsche .

I hope my rambling is understandable .

Wes