Megasquirt Q's
11-25-2005, 01:59 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Megasquirt Q's
I know there's a special thread just for the MS discussion, but it's gotten kinda long, and I want to ask a few 'newbie' questions. I've read the entire other thread, yet still have these questions.
First off, here's a list of features I see as beeing 'nessesary' for a complete 951 megasquirt setup (i.e. no factory computers).
1) Fuel Control
2) Idle Control
3) Ignition Control
4) Boost Control
5) Knock Sensing
First off...am I missing anything? If so, post it & I'll add it to the list
Next, How are these requirements going to be met in a MS setup? 1 & 2 are met in all the MS setups I've looked over (worst case we'll need special sensors, best case you can get the factory triggers working), so we'll ignore them for now. Would a MSnS or a MS-II be a better choice? How long till the UltraMegasquirt is actually available (I keep seeing Q1 2005 as the scheduled release date)?
3) Ignition Control
- From what I see you have two choices, MSnS or MS-II. Both of these look like they'll do what we need (at least in theory). Would there be any advantage to using Vintese's wasted spark setup (does that require the DME?)
4) Boost Control
- From what I've been reading, the MS-II series has no support for this, and no intention for it either. The MS-I series is listed as having support for this, but I also see it listed as "Experimental". I imagine 'worst case', one could go with manual boost control using the factory setup. I'd consider this quite a disappointment though for a standalone setup.
5) Knock Sensing
- I'd consider this a requirement as I don't think any of us want to blow up our motors due to 'overreaching' our tuning levels. I see the MS-I has no support for this, yet the MS-II has 'limited' support of this. How possible would it be to tie the factory KLR into the MS-II? What about with Vintese's KLR upgrade on it's way?
Also, useful newbie info:
MS-I = 1st generation MS kit. Least powerful hardware, most developed software. Tends to have the most features, although limited by hardware capabilities. Fuel control only.
MSnS = MS-I + add-on card for ignition control
MS-II = 2nd generation MS kit. More powerful hardware than MS-I. Capable of many more features than the MS-I, although currently limited by immature software. Has fuel + ignition control.
UltraMegaSquirt = 3rd generation MS. Much more powerful than the MS-II, with hardware capable of nearly any desireable feature. Not yet released.
First off, here's a list of features I see as beeing 'nessesary' for a complete 951 megasquirt setup (i.e. no factory computers).
1) Fuel Control
2) Idle Control
3) Ignition Control
4) Boost Control
5) Knock Sensing
First off...am I missing anything? If so, post it & I'll add it to the list
Next, How are these requirements going to be met in a MS setup? 1 & 2 are met in all the MS setups I've looked over (worst case we'll need special sensors, best case you can get the factory triggers working), so we'll ignore them for now. Would a MSnS or a MS-II be a better choice? How long till the UltraMegasquirt is actually available (I keep seeing Q1 2005 as the scheduled release date)?
3) Ignition Control
- From what I see you have two choices, MSnS or MS-II. Both of these look like they'll do what we need (at least in theory). Would there be any advantage to using Vintese's wasted spark setup (does that require the DME?)
4) Boost Control
- From what I've been reading, the MS-II series has no support for this, and no intention for it either. The MS-I series is listed as having support for this, but I also see it listed as "Experimental". I imagine 'worst case', one could go with manual boost control using the factory setup. I'd consider this quite a disappointment though for a standalone setup.
5) Knock Sensing
- I'd consider this a requirement as I don't think any of us want to blow up our motors due to 'overreaching' our tuning levels. I see the MS-I has no support for this, yet the MS-II has 'limited' support of this. How possible would it be to tie the factory KLR into the MS-II? What about with Vintese's KLR upgrade on it's way?
Also, useful newbie info:
MS-I = 1st generation MS kit. Least powerful hardware, most developed software. Tends to have the most features, although limited by hardware capabilities. Fuel control only.
MSnS = MS-I + add-on card for ignition control
MS-II = 2nd generation MS kit. More powerful hardware than MS-I. Capable of many more features than the MS-I, although currently limited by immature software. Has fuel + ignition control.
UltraMegaSquirt = 3rd generation MS. Much more powerful than the MS-II, with hardware capable of nearly any desireable feature. Not yet released.
11-25-2005, 02:35 PM
#2
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Originally Posted by Scootin159
I know there's a special thread just for the MS discussion, but it's gotten kinda long, and I want to ask a few 'newbie' questions. I've read the entire other thread, yet still have these questions.
First off, here's a list of features I see as beeing 'nessesary' for a complete 951 megasquirt setup (i.e. no factory computers).
1) Fuel Control
2) Idle Control
3) Ignition Control
4) Boost Control
5) Knock Sensing
First off...am I missing anything? If so, post it & I'll add it to the list
Next, How are these requirements going to be met in a MS setup? 1 & 2 are met in all the MS setups I've looked over (worst case we'll need special sensors, best case you can get the factory triggers working), so we'll ignore them for now. Would a MSnS or a MS-II be a better choice? How long till the UltraMegasquirt is actually available (I keep seeing Q1 2005 as the scheduled release date)?
3) Ignition Control
- From what I see you have two choices, MSnS or MS-II. Both of these look like they'll do what we need (at least in theory). Would there be any advantage to using Vintese's wasted spark setup (does that require the DME?)
4) Boost Control
- From what I've been reading, the MS-II series has no support for this, and no intention for it either. The MS-I series is listed as having support for this, but I also see it listed as "Experimental". I imagine 'worst case', one could go with manual boost control using the factory setup. I'd consider this quite a disappointment though for a standalone setup.
5) Knock Sensing
- I'd consider this a requirement as I don't think any of us want to blow up our motors due to 'overreaching' our tuning levels. I see the MS-I has no support for this, yet the MS-II has 'limited' support of this. How possible would it be to tie the factory KLR into the MS-II? What about with Vintese's KLR upgrade on it's way?
Also, useful newbie info:
MS-I = 1st generation MS kit. Least powerful hardware, most developed software. Tends to have the most features, although limited by hardware capabilities. Fuel control only.
MSnS = MS-I + add-on card for ignition control
MS-II = 2nd generation MS kit. More powerful hardware than MS-I. Capable of many more features than the MS-I, although currently limited by immature software. Has fuel + ignition control.
UltraMegaSquirt = 3rd generation MS. Much more powerful than the MS-II, with hardware capable of nearly any desireable feature. Not yet released.
First off, here's a list of features I see as beeing 'nessesary' for a complete 951 megasquirt setup (i.e. no factory computers).
1) Fuel Control
2) Idle Control
3) Ignition Control
4) Boost Control
5) Knock Sensing
First off...am I missing anything? If so, post it & I'll add it to the list
Next, How are these requirements going to be met in a MS setup? 1 & 2 are met in all the MS setups I've looked over (worst case we'll need special sensors, best case you can get the factory triggers working), so we'll ignore them for now. Would a MSnS or a MS-II be a better choice? How long till the UltraMegasquirt is actually available (I keep seeing Q1 2005 as the scheduled release date)?
3) Ignition Control
- From what I see you have two choices, MSnS or MS-II. Both of these look like they'll do what we need (at least in theory). Would there be any advantage to using Vintese's wasted spark setup (does that require the DME?)
4) Boost Control
- From what I've been reading, the MS-II series has no support for this, and no intention for it either. The MS-I series is listed as having support for this, but I also see it listed as "Experimental". I imagine 'worst case', one could go with manual boost control using the factory setup. I'd consider this quite a disappointment though for a standalone setup.
5) Knock Sensing
- I'd consider this a requirement as I don't think any of us want to blow up our motors due to 'overreaching' our tuning levels. I see the MS-I has no support for this, yet the MS-II has 'limited' support of this. How possible would it be to tie the factory KLR into the MS-II? What about with Vintese's KLR upgrade on it's way?
Also, useful newbie info:
MS-I = 1st generation MS kit. Least powerful hardware, most developed software. Tends to have the most features, although limited by hardware capabilities. Fuel control only.
MSnS = MS-I + add-on card for ignition control
MS-II = 2nd generation MS kit. More powerful hardware than MS-I. Capable of many more features than the MS-I, although currently limited by immature software. Has fuel + ignition control.
UltraMegaSquirt = 3rd generation MS. Much more powerful than the MS-II, with hardware capable of nearly any desireable feature. Not yet released.
As for the MSnE vs MS2, its a toss up. MS2 doesnt do boost control and a few other things, thus ive never considered it and I doubt most others have. MS2s advantages are faster processor and CAN bus (think two MegaSquirts linked together via two wires. Theres actually a board in testing that is basically a dual processor MegaSquirt, one MS1 proc and one MS2.). MS2 is a different processor, MSnE cant run on it, and theres no plans for porting MSnE over (might not even be needed with the dual CPU system). UMS is still a ways away. MS2 will be great for people running N/A cars. MSnE will be better for us Turbo guys IMHO.
3) Ignition is open, Dan will be doing COP (Coil on Plug), ill be using a normal coil at first then switching to coilpacks for wasted spark, or just going coilpacks right away, havent decided yet. MSnE is the one that can sorta do COP, its wasted spark using COPs from what I gather. True COP is possible with some more fiddling, but only on four cyls until the router board arrives (end of post). Both will do wasted spark I believe. Vitesses wasted spark is a Motronic addon, wont be needed for MegaSquirt. A $50 set of coils off ebay and some spark wires are all thats needed for MegaSquirt to do its thing.
4) Boost control works fairly well. Its listed as experimental mostly because open loop works well, closed doesnt (or vice versa). No reason to shy away from it. Im picking up a Mac valve next week as my boost control solenoid since my Profec is a peice of **** that was poorly designed and it broke. Obviously MSnE is needed for this.
5) Knock, also an MSnE only feature I think (Ive never really looked too hard at MS2s feature list). Seems like its a fairly well done feature, retards timing, can retard boost if MS controls boost, etc. Configurable. Extra circuity is needed for the knock sensor, its about $60 from www.viatrack.ca or you can build it yourself. Ill be running it on my car at first.
Theres another in between system, the dual processor setup. Ive only skimmed the threads, so I wont try to summarize too much, but its aimed at running an MS2 CPU and an MS1 CPU with MSnE. Still in alpha testing, could be a pretty interesting setup. There is also the upcoming "MegaSquirt Router Board" which will be an addon that allows sequntial injection and such. This is also in early testing.
11-25-2005, 04:21 PM
#3
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We are going down the MS2 path.
Scootin you are asking questions that can't be answered specifically. A few are going down different paths to find a solution. Some are looking at hardware work-arounds and others at writting custom code. Lets just say it is not that far away. We hope to have our test vehicle up and running early in the new year.
p.S Thedge would you have an extra cd4011b and cd4018b. I need to get a hold of these for our testing.
I can buy some from you if you have some........ I have some coming in the new year if you want me to replace them for you?
Scootin you are asking questions that can't be answered specifically. A few are going down different paths to find a solution. Some are looking at hardware work-arounds and others at writting custom code. Lets just say it is not that far away. We hope to have our test vehicle up and running early in the new year.
p.S Thedge would you have an extra cd4011b and cd4018b. I need to get a hold of these for our testing.
I can buy some from you if you have some........ I have some coming in the new year if you want me to replace them for you?
11-25-2005, 10:39 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
theedge, thanks for your good explanations. I'm really curious about the MS2+MSnE setup as I like some of the MS2 features (i.e. actually using the WBO2 sensor, not just converting WBO2 output to a standard signal), but would be nice to have some the MS1's accessory features (i.e. boost control, traction control, water injection, etc.).
The cost of all the accessory boards is really a non-issue IMHO considering a full-blown MS kit, preassembled, with every possible option, will still cost much less than any alternative setup (including a factory DME + KLR if you don't already have them).
The cost of all the accessory boards is really a non-issue IMHO considering a full-blown MS kit, preassembled, with every possible option, will still cost much less than any alternative setup (including a factory DME + KLR if you don't already have them).
11-25-2005, 10:49 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by AlexE
We are going down the MS2 path.
Scootin you are asking questions that can't be answered specifically. A few are going down different paths to find a solution. Some are looking at hardware work-arounds and others at writting custom code. Lets just say it is not that far away. We hope to have our test vehicle up and running early in the new year.
p.S Thedge would you have an extra cd4011b and cd4018b. I need to get a hold of these for our testing.
I can buy some from you if you have some........ I have some coming in the new year if you want me to replace them for you?
Scootin you are asking questions that can't be answered specifically. A few are going down different paths to find a solution. Some are looking at hardware work-arounds and others at writting custom code. Lets just say it is not that far away. We hope to have our test vehicle up and running early in the new year.
p.S Thedge would you have an extra cd4011b and cd4018b. I need to get a hold of these for our testing.
I can buy some from you if you have some........ I have some coming in the new year if you want me to replace them for you?
11-25-2005, 11:01 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by Scootin159
theedge, thanks for your good explanations. I'm really curious about the MS2+MSnE setup as I like some of the MS2 features (i.e. actually using the WBO2 sensor, not just converting WBO2 output to a standard signal), but would be nice to have some the MS1's accessory features (i.e. boost control, traction control, water injection, etc.).
The cost of all the accessory boards is really a non-issue IMHO considering a full-blown MS kit, preassembled, with every possible option, will still cost much less than any alternative setup (including a factory DME + KLR if you don't already have them).
The cost of all the accessory boards is really a non-issue IMHO considering a full-blown MS kit, preassembled, with every possible option, will still cost much less than any alternative setup (including a factory DME + KLR if you don't already have them).
