Campeck

thinking outside the box here.....
whats stopping someone from making one? (if it hasnt been done already)
an AC system is..pump...condenser...evaporater.

lets say you had a small systyem JUST for the turbo. a small compressor pump.
then let the intercooler itself be the condenser. a bunch of tiny pipes with fins with the freon inside. and air from the turbo blowing over them. you might even be able to use a water air intercooler....and just put freon through it. or make a custom one with a very strong structure to it so it can withstand the pressure. then an evaporater after the intercooler.

i mean....imagine never having to worry about detonation again. lower octane.
more boost. more than 100% effieciency all the time. and the 2 hp it takes to drive the system. up to 20-30hp back! more if you tune for more boost ect.

i'de love some input and ideas.
no flames....

snappy

I played around with this idea about 8 years ago. the offset of running the pump from the motor was more than the gains it yielded. This was on the first incarnation of my Modified Group B BMW M5. So I thought where else can I get a rotating power from that will not suck up as much power. hmm the drive-shaft pulley of course

So I actually rigged a belt system to the drive-sharft and mounted it to the pump from inside the car where the back seats where. It worked like a charm. That was till I decided to move to Group C which was an all motor group and removed the turbo. I do not have dyno numbers but I could run 98 octane instead of 104. I ended up using the same brackets to run my alternator off.

ps. the rotational mass theory came heavily into play here. The motor was originally very slow to spool and I believe it took 300rpm or more to spool with the same amout of boost. Also my car shook shoooo much that I would not give any credit to the accuracy of those gauges. "Could not afford race springs for the front so i ended up sticking a 325is front coil inside the the front coil of the stock m5 coil and best of all it handled great. and never broke anything other than some fillings from my teenage years.

emwporsche

^ha dual coils!

snappy

I am not kidding here - I actually added 25 Kilogram of cement in the rear trunk on each side of the car to help me get a firmer rear and less lift. everyone was removing weight and here I was adding it

Campeck

what kind of intercooler did you run it through?
just a water to air one?

snappy

I used 2 suzuki 80 cc water coolersfor the job. I had to reseal them 3 times cause the preasure was to high but as soon as I got it molded in place it never leaked again.

snappy

ps I know that Ford has been playing with this idea for some time now. I remeber reading a 3 or so years back that they were doing prototyping on this. problem is that you cannot constantly cool it enough unless you run the pump in overdrive. they came up with a solution that it would run for 50 or so seconds at a time and then "recool" for about 3-5 min. then it's again available at WOT. needless to say you need DME or standalone to be aware when the system is ready. I remember that you can get propane coolers that have an extremely quick cool cycle. But I am not about to place a propane tank in the trunk of my car

Best way would be to use chemicals lithium bromide comes to mind. that or electric cooling. 12V just aint up to the task.

snappy

Looks like these monkeys have a kit already - cool
http://www.coolflow.com/intracooler/intercooler.htm
now how are you going to explain that thing in your 944's trunk to the wife?

azmi951

Mercedes has been doing it for some years now on their V12 twin turbo cars. I dont know all the details but when I was poking around a S600 I was looking for intercollers then saw the ac was hooked to the charge air pipes. I dont think it was just an ait to water system but I could be wrong.

Think about it, you build up refridgerant pressure while at low load cruising and store the pressureized refridgerant until you are on boost at which time it releases the pressure from the system into the charge air coolers. This means unless you are on it for a while (long enough to depleate the pressure resivoir) the compressor need not be running.

However, this seems like a complicated system that would be costly, bulky and not nearly as reliable as the air to air cooler. The air to air is as reliable as a brick. I can see doing this to circumvent restictive rules but not for a street or general track car, too many things to break, leak or clutter up a tight engine compartment.

azmi951

Oh, remember simplicity is the esence of good engineering.

aeronautica86

I'd be willing to bet that any performance gain by somewhat cooler air at the intake is going to be offset by the added weight of that heinous contraption.