Engine Analyzer... library of parts and values
09-09-2005, 05:18 PM
#46
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by hosrom_951
NZ: What i like to know is this, when you started this thread, you entered the combustion design to be a Hemi Design. I then responded by saying that the combustion design is not a Hemi design, which referes to the cylinder head being "half spherical" or "dome" shapped. You didn't update the info there at all, that is untill Skunk chimed in and helped out.
What i am trying to say is that you started this thread and posted some incorrect data (one being the combustion design), what makes you 100% sure that the rest of the data is correct? So far, only Skunk tested the data, it would be nice that if someone also tested the data (according to what spec you have) and gave us more input (and no, i am not saying Skunk is wrong about anything, you just can't have enough information).
Secondly, just how accurate is this program? i recall you mentioned:
Did you compare this software with real life data and got the same results?
What i am trying to say is that you started this thread and posted some incorrect data (one being the combustion design), what makes you 100% sure that the rest of the data is correct? So far, only Skunk tested the data, it would be nice that if someone also tested the data (according to what spec you have) and gave us more input (and no, i am not saying Skunk is wrong about anything, you just can't have enough information).
Secondly, just how accurate is this program? i recall you mentioned:
Did you compare this software with real life data and got the same results?
Originally Posted by NZ951
Below are specifications to use on the Engine Analyzer. Given I have not verified the specs of the mods personally, I cant assure they are precise
Originally Posted by NZ951
PS so far the engine analyser with almost my exact setup, is within 5 WHP of what I dyno'ed...
09-09-2005, 08:04 PM
#47
Banned
Bump. Thread Edited. hosrom_951, if you have a beef with this thread and some "hidden agenda" - work it out in private. Or you can e-mail me at admin@rennlist.com and explain why a basic thread should be hijacked. But, I have to warn you - I have a really short attention span on this.
John D.
John D.
09-10-2005, 03:49 AM
#48
I would like to offer this on this subject. Be careful with all of these programs as they can give you false hopes.
Never lose touch with what is already known. Lets consider the Head Flow numbers posted. I find them hard to believe. I do know that these Heads never achieve the same numbers on any other Flow bench. But this sort of thing is typical. Same with posted HP numbers. These are what we buy into, and spend money on. They call this marketing, false but its still marketing.
Consider this. Ask any engine builder who knows his stuff, and he should be able to quote the Flow Numbers od any typical hotrodded SBC head with the std, 2.02" Intake valves. These heads flow approx 250 CFM at around 0.600 lift. Take a look at the size of the ports. To flow these sort of numbers, you need good port work and port volume. You can have all the fancy Seat work etc, but without tye volume in the port, the port will never flow. So how come this little Porsche Head can match the flow, with smaller ports, smaller Valves etc. Have they found something no other Engine builder has been able to do, with all of the work done to SBC Heads, after all of this time? And with smaller Valves! I think not, and Other Flow benches have proved this.
If you knew what you were doing, you would know what SBC Heads flow amonst others, and never quote numbers that are so far off from being real. It is no surprise they want you to send your Head to them to flow.
Head flow numbers are a base line and should be used as a base line only. Big numbers do not mean your going to get more HP. A great flowing head with poor mapping could result in less Power.
Heads should be flowed with the manifold and butterfly attached to give a more realistic flow number. Lift numbers should be real not more than the engine sees. I bet you would not see the numbers posted with the manifold fitted to a larger port head either. Beware, there are Salesman lurking amongst us.
Never lose touch with what is already known. Lets consider the Head Flow numbers posted. I find them hard to believe. I do know that these Heads never achieve the same numbers on any other Flow bench. But this sort of thing is typical. Same with posted HP numbers. These are what we buy into, and spend money on. They call this marketing, false but its still marketing.
Consider this. Ask any engine builder who knows his stuff, and he should be able to quote the Flow Numbers od any typical hotrodded SBC head with the std, 2.02" Intake valves. These heads flow approx 250 CFM at around 0.600 lift. Take a look at the size of the ports. To flow these sort of numbers, you need good port work and port volume. You can have all the fancy Seat work etc, but without tye volume in the port, the port will never flow. So how come this little Porsche Head can match the flow, with smaller ports, smaller Valves etc. Have they found something no other Engine builder has been able to do, with all of the work done to SBC Heads, after all of this time? And with smaller Valves! I think not, and Other Flow benches have proved this.
If you knew what you were doing, you would know what SBC Heads flow amonst others, and never quote numbers that are so far off from being real. It is no surprise they want you to send your Head to them to flow.
Head flow numbers are a base line and should be used as a base line only. Big numbers do not mean your going to get more HP. A great flowing head with poor mapping could result in less Power.
Heads should be flowed with the manifold and butterfly attached to give a more realistic flow number. Lift numbers should be real not more than the engine sees. I bet you would not see the numbers posted with the manifold fitted to a larger port head either. Beware, there are Salesman lurking amongst us.
09-10-2005, 07:16 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by m42racer
I would like to offer this on this subject. Be careful with all of these programs as they can give you false hopes.
Never lose touch with what is already known. Lets consider the Head Flow numbers posted. I find them hard to believe. I do know that these Heads never achieve the same numbers on any other Flow bench. But this sort of thing is typical. Same with posted HP numbers. These are what we buy into, and spend money on. They call this marketing, false but its still marketing.
Consider this. Ask any engine builder who knows his stuff, and he should be able to quote the Flow Numbers od any typical hotrodded SBC head with the std, 2.02" Intake valves. These heads flow approx 250 CFM at around 0.600 lift. Take a look at the size of the ports. To flow these sort of numbers, you need good port work and port volume. You can have all the fancy Seat work etc, but without tye volume in the port, the port will never flow. So how come this little Porsche Head can match the flow, with smaller ports, smaller Valves etc. Have they found something no other Engine builder has been able to do, with all of the work done to SBC Heads, after all of this time? And with smaller Valves! I think not, and Other Flow benches have proved this.
If you knew what you were doing, you would know what SBC Heads flow amonst others, and never quote numbers that are so far off from being real. It is no surprise they want you to send your Head to them to flow.
Consider this. Ask any engine builder who knows his stuff, and he should be able to quote the Flow Numbers od any typical hotrodded SBC head with the std, 2.02" Intake valves. These heads flow approx 250 CFM at around 0.600 lift. Take a look at the size of the ports. To flow these sort of numbers, you need good port work and port volume. You can have all the fancy Seat work etc, but without tye volume in the port, the port will never flow. So how come this little Porsche Head can match the flow, with smaller ports, smaller Valves etc. Have they found something no other Engine builder has been able to do, with all of the work done to SBC Heads, after all of this time? And with smaller Valves! I think not, and Other Flow benches have proved this.
If you knew what you were doing, you would know what SBC Heads flow amonst others, and never quote numbers that are so far off from being real. It is no surprise they want you to send your Head to them to flow.
Head flow numbers are a base line and should be used as a base line only. Big numbers do not mean your going to get more HP. A great flowing head with poor mapping could result in less Power.
Heads should be flowed with the manifold and butterfly attached to give a more realistic flow number. I bet you would not see the numbers posted with the manifold fitted to a larger port head either.
09-10-2005, 01:14 PM
#51
Quote,
"I guess you're talking of LR's numbers now...not the ones I posted...?"
My mistake.
In the past when I have bought parts that never lived up to their hipe, I never wanted to admit to that fact.
The guy I kept convincing, that they worked, was myself.
"I guess you're talking of LR's numbers now...not the ones I posted...?"
My mistake.
In the past when I have bought parts that never lived up to their hipe, I never wanted to admit to that fact.
The guy I kept convincing, that they worked, was myself.
09-11-2005, 08:42 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by m42racer
In the past when I have bought parts that never lived up to their hipe, I never wanted to admit to that fact.
The guy I kept convincing, that they worked, was myself.
The guy I kept convincing, that they worked, was myself.
A raleted thing we encounter is "tuner bonding". When you buy a part that really work or when you feel that the tuner have given you good service, you extend these facts to the fact that all parts from this tuner is good and that he always will give good service. In really bad cases this becomes a religious belief and no matter how many people states the opposite, you KNOW that they are wrong.
This also works the other way around, one bad part or one case of bad service = always bad parts and service and noone should tell you otherwise.
We see this behavior a lot here at Rennlist.
Tomas
09-14-2005, 08:42 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by NZ951
Head (measure in inch)
LINDSEY RACING STAGE 2 Porting with 45 mm intake valves
Intake
Valve diameter 45
Average port diameter 42.02
Port length 82.5
Anti-reversion % 0
Full Intake Flow table @ 28"
Valve Lift"......mm......Flow,CFM
0,07874..........2..........51.109
0,15748..........4........102.65
0,23622..........6........147.469
0,31496..........8........174.329
0,3937..........10........194.797
0,47244........12........211.058
0,55118........14........222.474
0,59055........15........226.759
Exhaust
Valve diameter 40
Average port diameter 34.16
Port length 107.5
Single flow coef .597
Anti-reversion % 0
CR 8:1............................................Material/coating: Aluminium
Chamber design:Typical Wedge.................Burn Rating:Typical
STOCK 951 HEAD
Intake port specs:........................... Exhaust port Specs
# valves/Ports: 1valve &1 port .................1 valve& 1 port
Intake valve dia: 45....................................... 40
Avg port Dia: 41.39 .......................................34.16
Port lenght: 82.5 ..........................................107.5
Anti-rev: 0%................................................. 0%
Intake flow table @ 28" Ex. Single Flow Coeff: 0.597
Valve lift ". ..........mm.....................Flow CFM
0.0787..................2........................ 47,047
0,1575 .................4.........................95,524
0,2362 .................6.......................146,386
0,31496 ...............8.......................168,395
0,3937 ...............10.......................178,596
0,4724 ...............12.......................194,373
0,53149..............14....................... 201.73
CR: 8:1 .....................................Material/ Coating: Aluminium
Chamber design: Typical Wedge......... Burn rating: Typical
09-15-2005, 02:11 AM
#56
Race Director
Thread Starter
Changed the list... has anyone else found something fairly interesting with the Lindsey Racing heads and their flow compared to stock???
09-16-2005, 08:18 PM
#59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m42racer
In the past when I have bought parts that never lived up to their hipe, I never wanted to admit to that fact.
The guy I kept convincing, that they worked, was myself.
When you spend your hard earned $ on a performance part, you really want it to work and therefore it's very easy to convince yourself that the gain was bigger than it really was. Or in the worst case, that there was a performance gain when there really were none (maybe even a performance loss).
A raleted thing we encounter is "tuner bonding". When you buy a part that really work or when you feel that the tuner have given you good service, you extend these facts to the fact that all parts from this tuner is good and that he always will give good service. In really bad cases this becomes a religious belief and no matter how many people states the opposite, you KNOW that they are wrong.
This also works the other way around, one bad part or one case of bad service = always bad parts and service and noone should tell you otherwise.
We see this behavior a lot here at Rennlist.
Tomas
Really well said.
Originally Posted by m42racer
In the past when I have bought parts that never lived up to their hipe, I never wanted to admit to that fact.
The guy I kept convincing, that they worked, was myself.
When you spend your hard earned $ on a performance part, you really want it to work and therefore it's very easy to convince yourself that the gain was bigger than it really was. Or in the worst case, that there was a performance gain when there really were none (maybe even a performance loss).
A raleted thing we encounter is "tuner bonding". When you buy a part that really work or when you feel that the tuner have given you good service, you extend these facts to the fact that all parts from this tuner is good and that he always will give good service. In really bad cases this becomes a religious belief and no matter how many people states the opposite, you KNOW that they are wrong.
This also works the other way around, one bad part or one case of bad service = always bad parts and service and noone should tell you otherwise.
We see this behavior a lot here at Rennlist.
Tomas
Really well said.
09-16-2005, 09:26 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by NZ951
Skunk, have you tested the Stage 2 Lindsey Racing IC?