Need Help to Diagnose Oil Smoke at Idle
07-01-2005, 06:25 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by special tool
Ian - yes, especially when you do not have sufficient crankcase vacuum.
This vacuum was designed to help pull the oil down the turbo drain.
If you have a crank vac problem, the oil will build up in the turbo and slip past exhaust seals (ESPECIALLY SYNTHETIC OIL)
This vacuum was designed to help pull the oil down the turbo drain.
If you have a crank vac problem, the oil will build up in the turbo and slip past exhaust seals (ESPECIALLY SYNTHETIC OIL)
I beleive the balance shaft belts were misaligned putting the head on. I have a dirty little secret... I didn't put the belt covers back on... I just replaced the oring on the dipstick, and took of the balance shaft belt, i think this should cure the problem, but not before it had made the ac compressor mounting bolt disapear as well. It's only been run like this for a few hundred miles. Is on jackstands now, getting some work.
~Eyal
07-15-2005, 08:16 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for the feedback guys...here's an update...
I removed the camshaft housing, and removed #3 and #4 valve springs. The #4 valve stem seals were visually fine, pressed onto the guides properly. I replaced the valve stem seals anyways, since I was in there. I also replaced the seals on #3, since the #3 plug was slightly chocolate (remember, #4 plug was oil fouled, #1 and #2 looks perfect).
Well, after all that work the car still smokes after idling for awhile when the engine is hot.
I did a leakdown test. #1 and #2 are 4%, #3 is 34%!!!!, and #4 is 2%. So the cylinder with the fouled plug has an excellent leakdown number, and #3 is way high. The compressed air could be heard from the tailpipe, so it looks like I may have a burnt exhaust valve on #3. Hopefully it's just some carbon on the valve, I'll test it again in a few days. The car runs and idles fine, so perhaps it's not a burnt valve.
Anyways, this still doesn't explain what's going on with the fouled #4 plug and the oil smoke at idle. The i/c pipes have a little bit of oil, but nothing excessive and no pooling. The #4 runner didn't look to have any oil running through it when I had the intake manifold off. Is it possible that there's something wrong with my #4 oil control ring? The two compression rings may be fine, which yields the low 2% leakdown number, but oil is making it's way past the oil ring and into the combustion chamber?
Or should I focus on the turbo as a possible culprit, even though I don't see excessive oil in my i/c pipes?
To answer some other questions - my turbo is 40K km's old (about 30k miles), and has been running strong in the car for the past 3 years. In fact, the entire motor was rebuilt 3 years ago.
Thanks,
Ian
I removed the camshaft housing, and removed #3 and #4 valve springs. The #4 valve stem seals were visually fine, pressed onto the guides properly. I replaced the valve stem seals anyways, since I was in there. I also replaced the seals on #3, since the #3 plug was slightly chocolate (remember, #4 plug was oil fouled, #1 and #2 looks perfect).
Well, after all that work the car still smokes after idling for awhile when the engine is hot.
I did a leakdown test. #1 and #2 are 4%, #3 is 34%!!!!, and #4 is 2%. So the cylinder with the fouled plug has an excellent leakdown number, and #3 is way high. The compressed air could be heard from the tailpipe, so it looks like I may have a burnt exhaust valve on #3. Hopefully it's just some carbon on the valve, I'll test it again in a few days. The car runs and idles fine, so perhaps it's not a burnt valve.
Anyways, this still doesn't explain what's going on with the fouled #4 plug and the oil smoke at idle. The i/c pipes have a little bit of oil, but nothing excessive and no pooling. The #4 runner didn't look to have any oil running through it when I had the intake manifold off. Is it possible that there's something wrong with my #4 oil control ring? The two compression rings may be fine, which yields the low 2% leakdown number, but oil is making it's way past the oil ring and into the combustion chamber?
Or should I focus on the turbo as a possible culprit, even though I don't see excessive oil in my i/c pipes?
To answer some other questions - my turbo is 40K km's old (about 30k miles), and has been running strong in the car for the past 3 years. In fact, the entire motor was rebuilt 3 years ago.
Thanks,
Ian
07-16-2005, 06:50 PM
#35
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Well I may have a solution, but I need one final part and some more test time to be certain.
Here are my thoughts and observations:
My car has a garret turbo with .060" oil restrictor, maf intake, and factory AOS venting setup. My turbo is relatively new (about 9 months and 5k miles) and recently began smoking only when idling for lengthy periods of time. My intercooler tubes and intake show no excessive oil in them and my plugs look good. I also can see what looks like oil reside around the turbine housing to bearing housing connection. Since this is typically caused by crank pressure not allowing the turbo to drain correctly, I began checking out the factory system.
After cheching that all my AOS lines were connected and in good shape, I noticed that there is essencially no vacuum in my maf to turbo manifold (as in no reading on my mityvac gauge). Now I don't know what level of vacuum is present in a factory setup, but I would imagine it's more than I have with my MAF setup.
So I added a PCV valve from a Buick Grand National and have ordered an in-line check valve as well from Kirban Performance.
I added the PCV valve between some vent lines I added to the cam tower and a vaccum port I added to the intake. With this setup in place along with the factory AOS setup I just had my car start up cold and idle for about 30 minutes without a hint of smoke. You can check out a picture of the setup here.
My thought are that this system should take care of crank venting at idle and off boost and the factory setup will take care of venting when on boost.
I'll report back once I have some driving time testing done and my new check valve installed.
Here are my thoughts and observations:
My car has a garret turbo with .060" oil restrictor, maf intake, and factory AOS venting setup. My turbo is relatively new (about 9 months and 5k miles) and recently began smoking only when idling for lengthy periods of time. My intercooler tubes and intake show no excessive oil in them and my plugs look good. I also can see what looks like oil reside around the turbine housing to bearing housing connection. Since this is typically caused by crank pressure not allowing the turbo to drain correctly, I began checking out the factory system.
After cheching that all my AOS lines were connected and in good shape, I noticed that there is essencially no vacuum in my maf to turbo manifold (as in no reading on my mityvac gauge). Now I don't know what level of vacuum is present in a factory setup, but I would imagine it's more than I have with my MAF setup.
So I added a PCV valve from a Buick Grand National and have ordered an in-line check valve as well from Kirban Performance.
I added the PCV valve between some vent lines I added to the cam tower and a vaccum port I added to the intake. With this setup in place along with the factory AOS setup I just had my car start up cold and idle for about 30 minutes without a hint of smoke. You can check out a picture of the setup here.
My thought are that this system should take care of crank venting at idle and off boost and the factory setup will take care of venting when on boost.
I'll report back once I have some driving time testing done and my new check valve installed.
07-22-2005, 01:23 AM
#36
Race Car
So, fouled #4, and smoking primarily on deceleration points to a #4 valve seal?
Just curious....
My problem is still as present as ever, but I'm working at a job with no parking right now, so I have driven the car once in 1 1/2 weeks, so I don't notice it as much
If you guys think it might be a head problem, perhaps I'll pick up/borrow a head to try swapping it out to see if the problem goes away. It would be awesome if that's all it was. Would save me buckets of cash on a second motor.
Just curious....
My problem is still as present as ever, but I'm working at a job with no parking right now, so I have driven the car once in 1 1/2 weeks, so I don't notice it as much
If you guys think it might be a head problem, perhaps I'll pick up/borrow a head to try swapping it out to see if the problem goes away. It would be awesome if that's all it was. Would save me buckets of cash on a second motor.
09-17-2005, 08:11 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by IanM
Thanks for the feedback guys...here's an update...
I removed the camshaft housing, and removed #3 and #4 valve springs. The #4 valve stem seals were visually fine, pressed onto the guides properly. I replaced the valve stem seals anyways, since I was in there. I also replaced the seals on #3, since the #3 plug was slightly chocolate (remember, #4 plug was oil fouled, #1 and #2 looks perfect).
Well, after all that work the car still smokes after idling for awhile when the engine is hot.
I did a leakdown test. #1 and #2 are 4%, #3 is 34%!!!!, and #4 is 2%. So the cylinder with the fouled plug has an excellent leakdown number, and #3 is way high. The compressed air could be heard from the tailpipe, so it looks like I may have a burnt exhaust valve on #3. Hopefully it's just some carbon on the valve, I'll test it again in a few days. The car runs and idles fine, so perhaps it's not a burnt valve.
Anyways, this still doesn't explain what's going on with the fouled #4 plug and the oil smoke at idle. The i/c pipes have a little bit of oil, but nothing excessive and no pooling. The #4 runner didn't look to have any oil running through it when I had the intake manifold off. Is it possible that there's something wrong with my #4 oil control ring? The two compression rings may be fine, which yields the low 2% leakdown number, but oil is making it's way past the oil ring and into the combustion chamber?
Or should I focus on the turbo as a possible culprit, even though I don't see excessive oil in my i/c pipes?
To answer some other questions - my turbo is 40K km's old (about 30k miles), and has been running strong in the car for the past 3 years. In fact, the entire motor was rebuilt 3 years ago.
Thanks,
Ian
I removed the camshaft housing, and removed #3 and #4 valve springs. The #4 valve stem seals were visually fine, pressed onto the guides properly. I replaced the valve stem seals anyways, since I was in there. I also replaced the seals on #3, since the #3 plug was slightly chocolate (remember, #4 plug was oil fouled, #1 and #2 looks perfect).
Well, after all that work the car still smokes after idling for awhile when the engine is hot.
I did a leakdown test. #1 and #2 are 4%, #3 is 34%!!!!, and #4 is 2%. So the cylinder with the fouled plug has an excellent leakdown number, and #3 is way high. The compressed air could be heard from the tailpipe, so it looks like I may have a burnt exhaust valve on #3. Hopefully it's just some carbon on the valve, I'll test it again in a few days. The car runs and idles fine, so perhaps it's not a burnt valve.
Anyways, this still doesn't explain what's going on with the fouled #4 plug and the oil smoke at idle. The i/c pipes have a little bit of oil, but nothing excessive and no pooling. The #4 runner didn't look to have any oil running through it when I had the intake manifold off. Is it possible that there's something wrong with my #4 oil control ring? The two compression rings may be fine, which yields the low 2% leakdown number, but oil is making it's way past the oil ring and into the combustion chamber?
Or should I focus on the turbo as a possible culprit, even though I don't see excessive oil in my i/c pipes?
To answer some other questions - my turbo is 40K km's old (about 30k miles), and has been running strong in the car for the past 3 years. In fact, the entire motor was rebuilt 3 years ago.
Thanks,
Ian
Did you ever resolve this issue ?
09-18-2005, 03:57 AM
#38
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My TO4E was the same way and it kinda follows your explanation. If you think of the intake arrangement, it makes sense that you are burning oil primarilly in #4 and somewhat in #3. Under boost, the oil will collect on the walls of the plenum part of the intake manifold and be pushed by boost to the back of the manifold and down the #4 runner.
Also wondering how this turned out.
That's a lot of oil to burn and expensive these days to boot.
Also wondering how this turned out.
That's a lot of oil to burn and expensive these days to boot.
09-18-2005, 06:09 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by Danno
Try this same test again, but leave the oil-filler cap off. See if it starts to smoke after 10 minutes. I've got a cap with a nipple on it to measure actual crankcase pressures. Then you know for sure exactly what the crankcase pressure is..
About how much crankcase pressure is there?
I also got this problem, but mine is smoking all the time.(on throttle/off throttle) I got bad cylinder walls, so a rebuild is coming up in the winter
11-07-2010, 04:56 PM
#40
Well I may have a solution, but I need one final part and some more test time to be certain.
Here are my thoughts and observations:
My car has a garret turbo with .060" oil restrictor, maf intake, and factory AOS venting setup. My turbo is relatively new (about 9 months and 5k miles) and recently began smoking only when idling for lengthy periods of time. My intercooler tubes and intake show no excessive oil in them and my plugs look good. I also can see what looks like oil reside around the turbine housing to bearing housing connection. Since this is typically caused by crank pressure not allowing the turbo to drain correctly, I began checking out the factory system.
After cheching that all my AOS lines were connected and in good shape, I noticed that there is essencially no vacuum in my maf to turbo manifold (as in no reading on my mityvac gauge). Now I don't know what level of vacuum is present in a factory setup, but I would imagine it's more than I have with my MAF setup.
So I added a PCV valve from a Buick Grand National and have ordered an in-line check valve as well from Kirban Performance.
I added the PCV valve between some vent lines I added to the cam tower and a vaccum port I added to the intake. With this setup in place along with the factory AOS setup I just had my car start up cold and idle for about 30 minutes without a hint of smoke. You can check out a picture of the setup here.
My thought are that this system should take care of crank venting at idle and off boost and the factory setup will take care of venting when on boost.
I'll report back once I have some driving time testing done and my new check valve installed.
Here are my thoughts and observations:
My car has a garret turbo with .060" oil restrictor, maf intake, and factory AOS venting setup. My turbo is relatively new (about 9 months and 5k miles) and recently began smoking only when idling for lengthy periods of time. My intercooler tubes and intake show no excessive oil in them and my plugs look good. I also can see what looks like oil reside around the turbine housing to bearing housing connection. Since this is typically caused by crank pressure not allowing the turbo to drain correctly, I began checking out the factory system.
After cheching that all my AOS lines were connected and in good shape, I noticed that there is essencially no vacuum in my maf to turbo manifold (as in no reading on my mityvac gauge). Now I don't know what level of vacuum is present in a factory setup, but I would imagine it's more than I have with my MAF setup.
So I added a PCV valve from a Buick Grand National and have ordered an in-line check valve as well from Kirban Performance.
I added the PCV valve between some vent lines I added to the cam tower and a vaccum port I added to the intake. With this setup in place along with the factory AOS setup I just had my car start up cold and idle for about 30 minutes without a hint of smoke. You can check out a picture of the setup here.
My thought are that this system should take care of crank venting at idle and off boost and the factory setup will take care of venting when on boost.
I'll report back once I have some driving time testing done and my new check valve installed.
I'm seeing the exact same symptoms.
04-12-2011, 11:40 AM
#42
Bump.
When I let the engine idle for more than a minute, I see blue smoke coming out of the exhaust.
Breather system is stock with a Saikou Michi oil catch can plugged back into the intake pre turbo.
Engine compression & leak down test excellent, oil consumption is close to zero.
No smoke whatsoever when driving, regardless how I hard I push it.
Any idea?
When I let the engine idle for more than a minute, I see blue smoke coming out of the exhaust.
Breather system is stock with a Saikou Michi oil catch can plugged back into the intake pre turbo.
Engine compression & leak down test excellent, oil consumption is close to zero.
No smoke whatsoever when driving, regardless how I hard I push it.
Any idea?
Last edited by Thom; 04-23-2011 at 01:34 PM.
04-12-2011, 12:17 PM
#43
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Thom, when the engine is idling and it starts to smoke. Open up the oil fill cap, use a vacuum cleaner to create vacuum in the crankcase (limit how much suction you create). If the problem goes away, you just need to add a PCV system. (You will keep the stock crankcase ventilation system in place).
Info here might help CDH with his current issue sooooooooooooo! Bump!
