Group Buy on the best BOV !!
06-15-2005, 08:07 AM
#31
I did not test the Boost Sciences valve. I am sure it holds vacuum.
I tested 2 other pistons and they leaked.
David Floyd's piston valve leaks. The vacuum leaks will retard the reaction of the valve.
I am not talking at all about the orientation ofthe valve - that is, I know you can get better BOOST sealing characteristics by changing the port orientation.
Some valves wiil lose so much boost installed in the recommended orientation, that you can EASILY see fluctuations on the boost trace of a datalogger.
I tested 2 other pistons and they leaked.
David Floyd's piston valve leaks. The vacuum leaks will retard the reaction of the valve.
I am not talking at all about the orientation ofthe valve - that is, I know you can get better BOOST sealing characteristics by changing the port orientation.
Some valves wiil lose so much boost installed in the recommended orientation, that you can EASILY see fluctuations on the boost trace of a datalogger.
06-15-2005, 12:35 PM
#32
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Just to clear up one detail. By installing the ReFlex valve we offer in the same orientation at the stock Bosch valve, the ReFlex will not leak because it uses the boost itself to maintain the piston seal. Also, the ReFlex comes with adjustment spacers to tweak the spring rate for a more customized application. Also, to aid in convenience, we can setup and execute a group buy ourselves so that the responsibility does not fall on any one individual.
Regards
Regards
06-15-2005, 01:08 PM
#33
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I am in, but let's do it quickly because I want to dyno my car next week.
06-15-2005, 01:42 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by BoostSciences
Also, to aid in convenience, we can setup and execute a group buy ourselves so that the responsibility does not fall on any one individual.
06-15-2005, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by OriginalSterm
how many would be required and what might the price range be?
Price as follows:
5+ $110
10+ $100
Shipping is $3.50 a Valve.
Regards
06-15-2005, 06:32 PM
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Good evening to all.
Crazy Eddie and I have been corresponding on starting this group buy, and I would very much like to help any and all people interested in purchasing the product, however, there seem to be a few issues that need clearing up.
I will try to outline my answers as discernably as possible in the hopes that we can start a second thread to start the list for those people actually interested in the valves.
Ok. Here goes........
First and foremost, we manufacture over 40 different universal and vehicle specific blow-off and diverter/bypass valves, giving us the largest range of valve products in the world.
ALL of our products are manufactured in house under ISO 9001 manufacturing standards. All of our vaves are precision CNC machined from aircraft quality 6061 solid billet aluminum and are assembled by hand at our facility in Gloucester England.
Every single Forge product carries a Limited Lifetime "No Hassle" Warranty allowing for the free repair or replacement of any faulty or damaged component of any product.
A video tour of our manufacturing facility can be seen here:
Click Here
The valves mentioned above, to be used in this group buy may or may not be discontinued any longer, after a discussion this morning not related to this group buy at all, but our reasons for considering their discontinuation was due solely to the introduction of another valve offering similar performance but improved reliability in an almost identical package.
Below, I will outline this differences between the valves mentioned above:
FMDVR
The FMDVR valve is a direct replacement for the OEM Bosch valve. It uses a neoprene diaphragm for boost retention, which are known to wear out over time, but we include replacements free of charge.
This valve has 25mm (outside diameter) inlet and outlet hose connections with a top-mounted vacuum connection.
The valves include 3 interchangeable springs to adjust for varying levels of boost pressure, two replacement diaphragms, and replacement stainless steel worm-drive hose clamps with a smooth band.
FMDVR-A
The FMDVR-A valve is identical to the FMDVR except that it offers a vacuum connections that swivels 360 degrees around the top of the valve for ease of fitment into tight spaces or where the vacuum line may get kinked otherwise.
Otherwise, the performance of the valve is identical to the FMDVR.
Here is a link to a video outlining the sole difference:
Click Here
Due to the fact that diaphragm valves offer questionable reliability, we have spent over a year developing a new polymer diaphragm that will NEVER wear out nor tear under any normal use operatin conditions.
But, because of the exspense of producing these new diaphragms, we are not currently able to cost-effectively offer them in a valve that will work for this application, though we may be able to do so at a later date.
Because of our desire to provide yourselves with a valve that will offer extended reliability with no negative effect on peformance, I would prefer to do this group buy on another model of valve that is identical in it's outward appearance, but internally uses an aluminum piston instead of a neoprene diaphragm.
Below are the valves that I would prefer to use:
FMDV007P
The FMDV007P is also a direct replacement for the OEM Bosch valve, but offers the reliability of an aluminum piston over a diaphragm. The valve is sealed with three rubber o-rings and is lubricated with Mobil1 Fully Synthetic Automotive Grease. This valve will NEVER experience leaking issues as long as they are maintained (regreased) every 10K to 15K miles or so.
Just like changing the oil in your engine, a properly lubricated component will experience long life and fluidic movement while also maintaing a proper seal.
Because of the improved structural rigidity of the pistons, a 4 spring can be installed to allow for boost retention well over 30 PSI. (40 PSI documented and confirmed as of 2 weeks ago.)
The spring rates (color coded) are listed below:
Green - 5-15 PSI
Yellow - 15-23 PSI
Blue - 23-30 PSI
Red - 30 + PSI
FMDV007P-A
The FMDV007P-A is also identical to it's counterpart except for the ability to swivel the vacuum connection in any direction. Performance is not changed.
Concerning the orientation of the installation of the valve, I have compiled some information about that concern below:
We DO recommend installing the diaphragm valve in reverse orientation.
We DO NOT recommend installing the piston valves in reverse orientation. (Though it is not necessarily discouraged.)
I will now get into the specifics of why:
Diaphragm valves are notorious for failing/rupturing. This occurs for a number of different reasons. Diaphragms are sometimes made of neoprene (ours) or a number of different rubber compounds, some reinforced, and some not.
Regardless of the material used for the diaphragm, any diaphragm diverter valve, whether factory or aftermarket, uses a "cup" for the internal valve spring to seat inside the concave side of the diaphragm securely. This cup provides another level of reinforcement, but ONLY to the center section of the diaphragm.
When installing a diaphragm valve in a normal orientation, the positive pressure contacts the outer edges of the diaphragm first. The outer edges is where most of the movement is done, and is actually the inherently weakest part of the diaphragm.
When the valve is installed in a reverse orientation, the positive pressure contacts the center, reinforced, section of the diaphragm first, putting less stress on the material of the diaphragm, and consequently prolonging it's life span.
Sometimes diaphragm valve will make unusual chirping or fluttering noises, but this is only due to the undulations and flexibility of the material of the diaphragms.
Please see the picture below for my crude drawing of what I am refering to:
Piston valves are not required to be installed in reverse orientation due to the material with which pistons are made from and their structural integrity not being affected by the level of boost pressure nor the orientation of the installation.
Because of the design of our aluminum pistons, sometimes a whistling or chirping sound is created, solely due to the way that the air passes over the piston when traveling through the valve in reverse orientation.
See the crude drawing below for an explanation:
We are currently in the process of designing a different valve specific for the 996 TT and even the 997 TT (which will use the same valve) because of the tighter fitment constraints within that vehicle's engine bay. The valve itself will still utilize the same internal components but the external size and shape of the valve will be modified to allow for better fitment.
This is not an issue with the 944, however.
I have a local friend with a 944 Turbo currently using the FMDV007P valve, and as a matter of fact, he has been using it for over 2 years with no problems whatsoever. I am not sure if he is a member here or not, but I would gladly have him speak to that fact if need be.
I am willing to do whatever necessary to allow for this group buy to move forward quickly and smoothly, and am more than willing to help Eddie in that regard, but the reasoning for the mention of one person handling the group buy is that we have been "burned" on more than one occasion when offering a group buy to the public, but, as I have no wherewithall to assume that anyone here would do so, I am willing to give this one more shot.
So, in summary........
........ as of right now, I would prefer to offer this group buy to any interested people on the following valves, and at the following prices:
FMDV007P and FMDV007P-A
Retail price of the valves are $150 and $160 respectively.
Pricing for the valves for the group buy would be as follows: (for either type)
0-15 - $115 shipped per valve
16-30 - $110 shipped per valve
31-45 - $105 shipped per valve
46-60 - $100 shipped per valve
61-75 - $95 shipped per valve
76-90 - $90 shipped per valve
91 + - $85 shipped per valve
Each valve will be shipped via UPS Ground with an e-mailed tracking number (with supplied e-mail address), with the valve spring tuning kit (4 springs and two washers to adjust pre-load), and stainless steel replacement hose clamps.
Forge Motorsport will still honor any warranty claim with each valve, as long as each customer specifies that the valve was purchased through the group buy before making such a warranty claim, but the valves may not be exchange for another product.
Eddie and myself will start another thread in the coming days for those people whom are interested and to officially begin the group buy.
Until then, I will try to field any and all questions anyone may have.
Crazy Eddie and I have been corresponding on starting this group buy, and I would very much like to help any and all people interested in purchasing the product, however, there seem to be a few issues that need clearing up.
I will try to outline my answers as discernably as possible in the hopes that we can start a second thread to start the list for those people actually interested in the valves.
Ok. Here goes........
First and foremost, we manufacture over 40 different universal and vehicle specific blow-off and diverter/bypass valves, giving us the largest range of valve products in the world.
ALL of our products are manufactured in house under ISO 9001 manufacturing standards. All of our vaves are precision CNC machined from aircraft quality 6061 solid billet aluminum and are assembled by hand at our facility in Gloucester England.
Every single Forge product carries a Limited Lifetime "No Hassle" Warranty allowing for the free repair or replacement of any faulty or damaged component of any product.
A video tour of our manufacturing facility can be seen here:
Click Here
The valves mentioned above, to be used in this group buy may or may not be discontinued any longer, after a discussion this morning not related to this group buy at all, but our reasons for considering their discontinuation was due solely to the introduction of another valve offering similar performance but improved reliability in an almost identical package.
Below, I will outline this differences between the valves mentioned above:
FMDVR
The FMDVR valve is a direct replacement for the OEM Bosch valve. It uses a neoprene diaphragm for boost retention, which are known to wear out over time, but we include replacements free of charge.
This valve has 25mm (outside diameter) inlet and outlet hose connections with a top-mounted vacuum connection.
The valves include 3 interchangeable springs to adjust for varying levels of boost pressure, two replacement diaphragms, and replacement stainless steel worm-drive hose clamps with a smooth band.
FMDVR-A
The FMDVR-A valve is identical to the FMDVR except that it offers a vacuum connections that swivels 360 degrees around the top of the valve for ease of fitment into tight spaces or where the vacuum line may get kinked otherwise.
Otherwise, the performance of the valve is identical to the FMDVR.
Here is a link to a video outlining the sole difference:
Click Here
Due to the fact that diaphragm valves offer questionable reliability, we have spent over a year developing a new polymer diaphragm that will NEVER wear out nor tear under any normal use operatin conditions.
But, because of the exspense of producing these new diaphragms, we are not currently able to cost-effectively offer them in a valve that will work for this application, though we may be able to do so at a later date.
Because of our desire to provide yourselves with a valve that will offer extended reliability with no negative effect on peformance, I would prefer to do this group buy on another model of valve that is identical in it's outward appearance, but internally uses an aluminum piston instead of a neoprene diaphragm.
Below are the valves that I would prefer to use:
FMDV007P
The FMDV007P is also a direct replacement for the OEM Bosch valve, but offers the reliability of an aluminum piston over a diaphragm. The valve is sealed with three rubber o-rings and is lubricated with Mobil1 Fully Synthetic Automotive Grease. This valve will NEVER experience leaking issues as long as they are maintained (regreased) every 10K to 15K miles or so.
Just like changing the oil in your engine, a properly lubricated component will experience long life and fluidic movement while also maintaing a proper seal.
Because of the improved structural rigidity of the pistons, a 4 spring can be installed to allow for boost retention well over 30 PSI. (40 PSI documented and confirmed as of 2 weeks ago.)
The spring rates (color coded) are listed below:
Green - 5-15 PSI
Yellow - 15-23 PSI
Blue - 23-30 PSI
Red - 30 + PSI
FMDV007P-A
The FMDV007P-A is also identical to it's counterpart except for the ability to swivel the vacuum connection in any direction. Performance is not changed.
Concerning the orientation of the installation of the valve, I have compiled some information about that concern below:
We DO recommend installing the diaphragm valve in reverse orientation.
We DO NOT recommend installing the piston valves in reverse orientation. (Though it is not necessarily discouraged.)
I will now get into the specifics of why:
Diaphragm valves are notorious for failing/rupturing. This occurs for a number of different reasons. Diaphragms are sometimes made of neoprene (ours) or a number of different rubber compounds, some reinforced, and some not.
Regardless of the material used for the diaphragm, any diaphragm diverter valve, whether factory or aftermarket, uses a "cup" for the internal valve spring to seat inside the concave side of the diaphragm securely. This cup provides another level of reinforcement, but ONLY to the center section of the diaphragm.
When installing a diaphragm valve in a normal orientation, the positive pressure contacts the outer edges of the diaphragm first. The outer edges is where most of the movement is done, and is actually the inherently weakest part of the diaphragm.
When the valve is installed in a reverse orientation, the positive pressure contacts the center, reinforced, section of the diaphragm first, putting less stress on the material of the diaphragm, and consequently prolonging it's life span.
Sometimes diaphragm valve will make unusual chirping or fluttering noises, but this is only due to the undulations and flexibility of the material of the diaphragms.
Please see the picture below for my crude drawing of what I am refering to:
Piston valves are not required to be installed in reverse orientation due to the material with which pistons are made from and their structural integrity not being affected by the level of boost pressure nor the orientation of the installation.
Because of the design of our aluminum pistons, sometimes a whistling or chirping sound is created, solely due to the way that the air passes over the piston when traveling through the valve in reverse orientation.
See the crude drawing below for an explanation:
We are currently in the process of designing a different valve specific for the 996 TT and even the 997 TT (which will use the same valve) because of the tighter fitment constraints within that vehicle's engine bay. The valve itself will still utilize the same internal components but the external size and shape of the valve will be modified to allow for better fitment.
This is not an issue with the 944, however.
I have a local friend with a 944 Turbo currently using the FMDV007P valve, and as a matter of fact, he has been using it for over 2 years with no problems whatsoever. I am not sure if he is a member here or not, but I would gladly have him speak to that fact if need be.
I am willing to do whatever necessary to allow for this group buy to move forward quickly and smoothly, and am more than willing to help Eddie in that regard, but the reasoning for the mention of one person handling the group buy is that we have been "burned" on more than one occasion when offering a group buy to the public, but, as I have no wherewithall to assume that anyone here would do so, I am willing to give this one more shot.
So, in summary........
........ as of right now, I would prefer to offer this group buy to any interested people on the following valves, and at the following prices:
FMDV007P and FMDV007P-A
Retail price of the valves are $150 and $160 respectively.
Pricing for the valves for the group buy would be as follows: (for either type)
0-15 - $115 shipped per valve
16-30 - $110 shipped per valve
31-45 - $105 shipped per valve
46-60 - $100 shipped per valve
61-75 - $95 shipped per valve
76-90 - $90 shipped per valve
91 + - $85 shipped per valve
Each valve will be shipped via UPS Ground with an e-mailed tracking number (with supplied e-mail address), with the valve spring tuning kit (4 springs and two washers to adjust pre-load), and stainless steel replacement hose clamps.
Forge Motorsport will still honor any warranty claim with each valve, as long as each customer specifies that the valve was purchased through the group buy before making such a warranty claim, but the valves may not be exchange for another product.
Eddie and myself will start another thread in the coming days for those people whom are interested and to officially begin the group buy.
Until then, I will try to field any and all questions anyone may have.
06-16-2005, 01:24 AM
#37
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Thread Starter
Bump 
06-17-2005, 05:21 AM
#40
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I have just run into other belt realted issues. I can't commit until Sunday. Overall, if I can get this squared away, I'm in either way. Thanks to both vendors. It will be remembered either way. E
06-17-2005, 11:10 AM
#41
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Count me in, either way the FMDV007P or the reflex from boostsciences. But if there is not interest I will buy it separate I need the bov asap.
06-17-2005, 12:39 PM
#42
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Thread Starter
Ok Guys
I am going to start a new thread shortly with some over lap
This will include all details and names so we can get this rolling
I first need to speak to Mike
Regards
Ed
I am going to start a new thread shortly with some over lap
This will include all details and names so we can get this rolling
I first need to speak to Mike
Regards
Ed
06-17-2005, 08:25 PM
#43
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Thread Starter
I missed Mike this afternoon :-(
I will go ahead and do my best .. tonight
regards
Ed
I will go ahead and do my best .. tonight
regards
Ed
06-17-2005, 11:19 PM
#44
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I have a modification newb question. What does a bov do differently from the stock valve. What's the best way to get maximum benefit from a good bov?
06-19-2005, 01:47 PM
#45
ehall - Nothing besides hold air better, which is rather important. Stock valve is a plastic playtoy produced by Mattel (sarcasm) which tends to leak under pressure.
As for the group buy, I'm intersted in a FMDV007P-A, Black.
As for the group buy, I'm intersted in a FMDV007P-A, Black.