trackqueen951

Hey Guys, I took the car out for a spin and I noticed these weird noises coming from under the hood, so I stoped and looked under and thought it might be a plastic cover flaping or something. Anyways, on the way home I lost power steering. I got home and put the car up and took the covers off. The power steering belt was completley off ! Also the belt that goes arround the AC was off too! the PS pulley was fine and the AC pully was fine also, however, the main pully in the center was not turning right at all!?! What happened here, and how come the car was running fine and I just lost power steering. Did I do some major damage here or is it as simple as replacing that main pulley. What might have caused this??
And as always, Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Rami

Tom M'Guinn

What do you mean when you say the main pulley was not turning right? I assume the motor is turning over normally. There are only two things holding those pulleys in place -- four M6 (10mm hex) bolts and a big 24mm bolt. The big bolt screws right into the end of the crank, and should be torqued to 155 ft lbs. If that bolt is loose, you can lose oil pressure, so be sure to check that before driving it. The four little bolts are hard to see, but hold one of the pulleys in place. Also, check the A/c and ps pumps to make sure they are spinning. On a different car, I once had an a/c clutch freeze up, which took out the a/c belt, which took out the other drive belts....

trackqueen951

Yeah, you're right the motor is turning over normally. It's the pulley that bolts right into the end of the crank that is not spinning. The 24mm bolt is there but the I saw one of the M6 bolts completley off!
What might have caused this, should I replace the pulley or just tighten it?? You said that I can loose oil pressure, so maybe that's why my oil pressure light would come on. I assumed it was faulty because the oil pressure needle is always pegged at 5. That's what the mechanic said anyways!!! He said he tested the pressure with a different meter and everything was normal. He said I had a faulty gauge!!!

The PS and A/C pulleys are spinning normally, but I also noticed that the A/C belt also runs the alternator. Is this correct?? What do you guys think I should do to fix this? Should I leave it to a pro or try to do this myself??

Rami

trackqueen951

bump!

Zero10

As for the oil pressure, it almost sounds like the wires are on the sending unit backwards (i.e. swapped). If one or more of the M6 bolts are gone or broken, remove the PS pulley, and replace whatever ones are broken/missing. Then re-install the PS pulley, make sure it seats flat against the serpentine belt pulley, then tighten down the crank bolt. See if it turns correctly then.

The A/C belt will also run to the alternator, that's correct, no worries there.

Tom M'Guinn

Well, the pulleys on the crank are fixed to the end of the crank, so they don't spin on the crank of course. They should turn when the crank turns. I guess one of the 6mm bolts could have backed out, but I've never seen that happen. Are the crank pulleys loose at all -- can you wiggle them? If so, then that's probably the source of your problem. The gauge pegged at 5 is probably an electronic problem like your mechanic said, but I imagine a loose crank bolt can cause intermittent low oil pressure, so I'm not sure how much comfort I'd take from your mechanic's one-time test (i.e., I would not be too comforted).

To tighten the crank bolt, you need to remove the starter, install a flywheel lock, and torque the bolt to 155 ft. lbs.

Yes re the alternator. It should spin freely too. Is it?

Your problem could be nothing more than poorly tensioned belts of course. Who put them on and how old were they? If one belt snaps, it can get caught up in the other and take it out too.

trackqueen951

Thanks guys for the info.

The crank pulley are loose but the The other 3 pulleys are normal. I examined both belts and they were no signs of wear. I told the mechanics to check the belts less than 300 miles ago!! I got charged 3 hours of labor!! Man I'm pissed. Tom Thanks for the info on the crank bolt! I thought the radiator has to come off to use an impact wrench but that should save a lot of time. Speaking of time how many hours of labor should I expect to pay for. I decided to tow the car to another mechanic and have them do the work, but I just don't want to be ripped off again!!

Final question, Do you guys think that the poorly tensioned belts caused the belt to snap which in turns screwed the pulleys, or did the bolt on the pulley got loose and caused the problem???

Rami

Tom M'Guinn

If both crank pulleys are loose, then your big crank bolt must have loosened or was torqued improperly. I can't see how loose belts could affect that bolt. When was the last time the belts/rollers/waterpump were changed? Whoever did that work, if recent, may not have torqued the bolt to spec (but you never know).

As for labor, hard to say until you get in there. If it is just a loosened crank bolt and none of the M6 bolts snapped, then it shouldn't be more than 2 hours I'd say. I would suggest you get the oil sender issue fixed too, which shouldn't add more than an hour if there are no complications. The problem, of course, is things don't always go smoothly, and you often find more complicated problems once you start in. Good luck, and let us know what happens.

trackqueen951

Ok, I just talked to the shop and they said the pulley was broken?!? He said he is working on an estimate for me but I think it's going to be big! I thought the screw was off but he said it's broken. He also said that he has to take the timming belt off?!? I figured the last belt job was done at 77k and the car has 87k on it so we might as well do a belt job. What do you think Tom? I'm I being taken to the cleaners again?!? I'll tell you more once I have the estimate. I told him not to order any parts till I see the estimate.

35thSLP

If the bolt is broken then you will have to remove the crank pulley to get the broken bolt out. You could maybe do it on the car but it will be faster to remove it and then work on the broken bolt. If you have to do that might as well put a new belt back on. It will only add 20.00 or so to the price tag. Sounds like the first shop did not get the crank bolt torqued properly and it came loose.

trackqueen951

So why is he saying that the timming belt has to come off. is it connected to the crank shaft pulley in anyway?? does he even have to remove the belts cover at all?? It sounds to me that all he has to do is replace the crankshaft pulley, P/S belt and A/C, alternator belt. I'm I wrong??

Tom M'Guinn

There are four things on the end of the crank: first is a gear that drives the timing belt; then a gear that drives the b/s belt, and the two accessory pulleys that drive the a/c, p/s, and alt. The 4 little M6 bolts screw into the gear that drives the balance shaft belt. If one or more of those bolts snapped off, then it/they would need to be extracted from that gear. You might get lucky and be able to remove the bolts with the gear still on the crank, but there is not much room to work since it faces the radiator. So, the mechanic probably needs to play it safe on the estimate assume that the gear needs to be removed. To remove the gear, you need to remove the front timing covers and the balance shaft belt. I don't think you'd actually need to remove the timing belt, but not doing so would be like driving by the grand canyon and not looking. It should cost essentially the same as a standard timing belt/ balance shaft belt replacement, plus a tiny extra to pull the bolt out of the gear. (Plus the cost of new pulleys if needed.) If your rollers/seals were replaced 10k ago, you might forego that extra expense anyway...

MichelleJD

I agree with Tom. Both belts cost around $50. I'm so better-safe-than-sorry about belts that I ended up ordering another set without thinking before I started my rebuild. I have an extra set sitting in the carriage house and that doesn't bother me one bit. If I had to go back in to the front of my engine for ANY reason, I think I'd replace the belts for ****s and giggles. The consequences of failed belts are just too grevious.

I sure don't know how that pulley bolt busted though. I've had just about every problem in that area that you can imagine. This one is new to me. Congrats!

Zero10

I would leave the old belts on, since if you replace the belts, you'll have to have them retensioned in 2000 miles. The old ones should still be good for another 35,000 miles. That's just my opinion I guess

trackqueen951

Well, I got the estimate and apperantley I broke the gear behined the crankshaft pulley, and that's what caused the whole deal. I've decided to do the belt job along with everything else, like you said better safe than sorry! Besides it will be next year before I put on 2000 miles!!

Ok I told the shop that I would buy the parts. He wants a new crankshat pulley, a new gear, all the belts and also the lower cover. I take it that's the front timing cover??(part number anyone?) I did notice the crankshaft pulley rubbed against the cover but I din't think it needs changing. Any thoughts??

Finally, the shop said that I was so lucky not to have damged the engine. I drove the car for a few miles when the belts where off!! and if the gear that runs the timing belt was broken how did the car run at all?? Anyways, I'm doing this Job and then selling the car! I'd hate to that but I've had the car less than a year and after this job I would have spent over $3500 in less than a year, and this car was supposedly a pristine example!!!!

Thanks guys for all your help

Rami